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Black Breathalizer
Rohan
Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
Views: 515
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I have to confess, I don't understand the hate some fans have regarding this film. As has been well articulated earlier in this thread, I suspect a lot of it has to do with unreasonably high fan and critic expectations along with the fact that The Hobbit is not as compelling a story as the Lord of the Rings is. Captain Salt doesn't like the film and nothing I will say is going to change that. But I do have a few different perspectives regarding his critique: Captain Salt: The film drags...nothing's resolved by the end of the film...nothing happens and nothing is achieved. First, AUJ is Act One of a three act play. Fans understand that the entire story isn't going to be told in one, or even two, films. That said, AUJ, like FOTR, is a movie designed to set the stage for the next two. As far as it's primary theme as a stand-alone movie, it gave us the transition of the film's 'everyman hero,' Bilbo Baggins. The audience watches as he transforms from a 'entirely respectable' hobbit who "looks like a grocer" and is made fun of because of his prissiness by the dwarves to one who, by the end of the film, has gained their respect and admiration. Bilbo's worst critic, Thorin Oakenshield, even goes so far as to publicly admit he was wrong. (Not a small thing for a proud dwarf of the line of Durin.) Not only was this theme strongly portrayed by the actors involved, it came directly from Tolkien. The only change the screenwriters made was to move up Bilbo's first big hero moment from the spiders of Mirkwood to the Orc and Warg attack. Captain Salt: General lack of character development for the Dwarves First off, Jackson bowed to the wishes of the fans of the book and put 13 dwarves on film. Screenwriting 101 would have dictated eliminating such a large number of characters and give us five or six dwarves instead. Would fans have preferred that? Given Jackson's character-development challenge when every second of film is precious, I was impressed by how well the film makers pulled it off. I was particularly impressed by the individual looks of the dwarves on film and how the way they looked communicated things about their characters to the movie audience. After AUJ, I felt I had a good feel for the film characters of Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Bofer, Kili, Fili, Dori, Ori, Gloin, and Oin. And while we may still have questions about them, we were also given a sense of who the film Bomber, Nori, and Bifer are. Captain Salt: too much cartoonish low-brow bathroom humor, such as Bilbo fretting over his lack of handkerchief... Watch the film with children and you'll discover the 'low-brow' humor scenes were some of kids' laugh-out-loud favorites. I thought it was great to have the film makers so sensitive to the younger members of their audience--particularly since the film is an adaptation of a children's fairy tale. And Bilbo fretting over his lack of a hankerchief is straight from the book. Captain Salt: A weird lack of emotion In my opinion, the emotion in AUJ wasn't as powerful as FOTR, but FOTR set a high bar and frankly, I never expected it to be as emotional given the different story these films were telling. That said, I found the emotion in AUJ to be compelling. I was very moved by Bilbo's decision to spare Gollum's life. I was also moved by Bilbo's response to Thorin about why he came back--and later, by Thorin's gratitude for Bilbo saving his life. And one of The Most Beautiful Emotional scenes to me was one that was also wonderfully understated: The quiet moments at BagEnd leading up to Bilbo's abrupt decision to leave home and run after the Company.
(This post was edited by Black Breathalizer on Jan 20 2013, 9:30pm)
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Time
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The Hobbit will almost certainly hold up as a bona fide chapter in a larger classic film series, despite the mixed and overly cynical reviews. .
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 5:59am
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yepper!
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swordwhale
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Jan 19 2013, 6:14am
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Quite true. What I think some forget (and the mixing in of Thror's fate doubtless muddied it further)
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:30am
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Nothing to add except
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SirDennisC
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Jan 19 2013, 6:40am
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Yes. Unless they sold them, which seems utterly improbable. New Line was already a division of AOL/Time Warner
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:51am
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It will hold up
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imin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:57am
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fine line indeed. That's what is so hard here, for us as fans to comment on... though we still have a concept of how good it was of course.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 19 2013, 12:27pm
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A 6-er box will definitely occur
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Estel78
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Jan 19 2013, 1:00pm
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Funny parts of the film
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ceppault
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Jan 19 2013, 3:32pm
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I am fairly confident that had this film managed to get made and released 13 years ago
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm
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Trying to make a prequel is the root of the problem
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:49am
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Book adaptation versus written for the screen.
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
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The threat of death is not neccessary for Drama. I don't need to fear that Margret Thatcher will be eaten by a shark
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:21pm
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There's very little drama in the necromancer story thread
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 7:38pm
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Using the length of the book as criticism of the three film format.
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 21 2013, 3:18pm
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It's one of those movies
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Súlimë
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Jan 19 2013, 2:45pm
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Exactly my sentiment.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 8:50pm
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Pretty spot on my friend
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Elessar
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Jan 19 2013, 3:26pm
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Thank you, Friend
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:37pm
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My pleasure
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:25am
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I am more or less of the same mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:52pm
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I beg to disagree
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:30pm
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And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
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Agreed
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:37pm
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And some are pretty
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:34pm
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I guess
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:40pm
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Lol!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:41pm
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Captain Salt,does quoting yourself make the point stronger? =)
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm
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Black Breathalizer, and YOUR point is what, exactly? =) //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 7:26pm
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But, art being subjective, there are no facts of good versus bad. Only matters of taste.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:15pm
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Everything's subjective, and taste
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 20 2013, 8:02pm
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Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress?
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
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a rebuttal
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
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I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:21am
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Again, this is simply not the case:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:14am
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll that typing I did to specifically respond to all that your long , 7
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:45am
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Bilbo fretting over his handkerchief is from the book.
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 9:48pm
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I put more stock in what was impressive.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:03am
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I won't refute all of your counter-arguments, as clearly we're not going to agree
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:57am
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Fair enough
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 7:06am
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Never mind, I've responsed to your considerable arguments in full (see above):
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:35am
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Well actually, I'll just respond to your previous post in full:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:34am
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Thank you for the careful and thoughtful response. There remain matters on which
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 23 2013, 10:58pm
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There's room for everyone here
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 7:59pm
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I was responding to this comment, actually:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:08pm
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The same applies to that comment
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 8:40pm
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Your very negative comments regarding fellow posters is uncalled for.
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Old Toby
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Jan 21 2013, 4:51am
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Thanks very much for sharing.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:42am
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*points to top of the board*
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Silverlode
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Jan 21 2013, 6:52am
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I certainly hope he replies
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:56am
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Don't agree at all...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 4:41pm
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Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and varying tastes.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:03pm
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Have the opposite reaction
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IdrilofGondolin
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Jan 20 2013, 12:34am
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Um, I assume you only speak for yourself
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:27am
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I agree
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peace1993
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Jan 19 2013, 6:25pm
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The same criticisms were said of FotR...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 6:59pm
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Not really, no.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm
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I explained...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm
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And I'm saying
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:58pm
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No, many are not of that opinion...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:18pm
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In fact just the opposite...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:30pm
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I don't think anyone is saying...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 9:01pm
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*bangs head on keyboard*
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Roheryn
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Nice way of putting it...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 10:51pm
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You're a breath of fresh air here!
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:45am
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I'm kind of curious if this is age related at all
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Magpie
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Jan 20 2013, 3:05am
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Could be...
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 4:09am
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Flawlessly stated.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:02am
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My rants
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:41am
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Maybe not an important thought
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Elessar
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Jan 21 2013, 10:22pm
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More like a breath of rather old air. :-)
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 3:56am
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Yay Ro!
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 3:25am
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No,
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Starling
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Jan 20 2013, 3:35am
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If I dig deep enough, I can find all kinds of fault with LOTR as movies.
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Kimtc
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Jan 20 2013, 3:58am
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*bangs self on keyboard*
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:17pm
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That's not the situation
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peace1993
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Jan 20 2013, 4:12am
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And the echo chamber/group think/fan denial continues... //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:18pm
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Disagreement with an OPINION is not "denial", "group think", nor "echo chamber"//
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Kirly
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Jan 20 2013, 10:47pm
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at some point, you have to consider that someone is just yanking people's chains
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 1:30am
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I have only just returned for a short time, but yes, began to think that yesterday.//
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Kirly
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Jan 21 2013, 2:21am
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I don't know. I don't think being indelicate or over genralizing are definite signs of a Troll.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 3:10am
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I don't necessarily think people who like to yank chains are trolls
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 4:24pm
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Eh, no but the kneejerk response of:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:20am
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Yes they were..
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm
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Thank you...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:35pm
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A film should work on its own merrits.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:52pm
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FotR got a good critical response...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Oscars and critics two different ball games
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 11:16pm
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...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:56pm
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I think we may agrere to disagree on the post-modern politics of criticism but..
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glor
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Jan 20 2013, 12:37am
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Thank you!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:21pm
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Pre-release Fan Expectations for AUJ & FOTR
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 4:41pm
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Thank you :)
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bborchar
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Jan 20 2013, 5:31pm
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Can't speak for everyone
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Grant
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Jan 19 2013, 7:04pm
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It will sit fairly well next to LOTR on a shelf, but...
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jtarkey
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Jan 19 2013, 9:22pm
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The only review I really care about
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Kangi Ska
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Jan 20 2013, 5:21am
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45 years is a long time to wait. .and PJ didn't..
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Bombadil
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Jan 20 2013, 7:02am
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