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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea
Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
Views: 504
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Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress?
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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1. Three stories that fail to congeal into a coherent whole...the Dwarves going to the Lonely Mountain & Azog's revenge & Radagast/Necromancer/White Council were totally removed from one another, resulting in total lack of forward momentum. Things just kind of happen one after another. The film drags, not because of the running time, but because we don't advance enough into the narrative for these stories to start relating to one another. Also, nothing's resolved by the end of the film; Bilbo's position in the Company has begun to ascend somewhat, but otherwise, nothing happens and nothing is achieved. Also, clumsy narrative structure, exposition, and dialogue. 2. General lack of character development for the Dwarves; other than Thorin and Balin, they're still cyphers at the film's end. Dwalin, Bofur, Kili, and Fili speak up pretty consistently, but speaking and actually showing us their character are two different things. Dwalin was bald; Bofur was James Nesbitt; Fili & Kili were younger and somewhat less clumpy-looking; Dori was pretentious; and Ori was geeky. Gloin & Oin were bit players with a few superfluous lines of dialogue each; Nori has one totally superflouous line; Bifur had one line in Dwarvish; and Bombur was an extra. After all the talk about how fleshed-out and sympathetic each Dwarf would be, after all the promises it just wouldn't be a pack of interchangeable Dwarves as in the book...that's what it felt like. Worrywort, Grinnah, and Lindir each had more dialogue than three of the Dwarves. And Thror had more dialouge than Bombur. And yeah, they'll have more screentime in the next two films, which will introduce a slew of new characters and more than likely feature less of the supporting Dwarves less than AUJ. A sequel that's a year away doesn't dispel with the failings of this movie. 3. Total over-use of CGI; looks like a video game. Also, production design often just bizarre, such as cartoonish Goblins or Radagast's hair tonic. Characters surviving endless enemies and enormous falls, maces to the face ETC strained creditability to the breaking point. 4. Also, too much cartoonish low-brow bathroom humor, such as Bilbo fretting over his lack of handkerchief, then being used by a stone troll as a handkerchief himself. Funny. 5. Overuse of music from LotR; it's distracting and can't be explained away as "thematic linking for a film that will come out in two years". Other than "Misty Mountains", not enough (new) strong thematic material in the score. Great themes from the soundtrack such as "A Very Respectable Hobbit", "Erebor" and The Dwarf Lords" went slightly used or totally unused. 6. A weird lack of emotion; even Bilbo seemed disconnected from the action much of the time (as opposed to the vast majority, I have no idea what Martin Freeman thought he was doing as Bilbo most of the time; we kept swinging between overly-effected to non-emotive. Also, he has one facial expression). The entire affair felt rushed, clumsy, soulless, heartless, and lacking the spirit, humanity, and artistry of LotR (yes, it's part of the series and needs to be compared to a precedent. The film doesn't exist in a vacuum so it can be held up as a success). Speaking of which, it relied too heavily on LotR iconography and nostalgia - Bilbo/Frodo bookend accomplished nothing, superfluous angered Gandalf moment in Bag-End ALA FotR, random Weathertop cameo, Azog bashing people with his mace ALA Sauron in the FotR prologue, come to mind. 7. Basic gaps in coherence and common sense & many lines which are contradicted by what's happened on-screen. Days and nights which are too quick (how do they spend an entire day in Goblin-town again? Then, it's sunset, then it's night again in 30 seconds? Shades of X-Men 3, another franchise continuation starring Ian McKellen in which things like time doesn't seem to adhere to the laws of physics/common sense). How could the Witch-King be in a tomb when he wasn't killed until RotK? How is Erebor the last Dwarf Kingdom of ME when other kingdoms are mentioned, including the Blue Mountains? Why do the Dwarves sing about dragon fire in the night when the attack happened in the day time? Why does Saruman call the Necromancer a "human sorcerer" when the term "human" doesn't exist in ME (it's the race of Men)? Why does Gandalf state he's not answerable to anyone, then spend 10 minutes answering to Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond? And so on...granted, these last criticisms are comparatively minor, and I'd have forgiven them had the rest of the film been decent.
My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit" 5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck 4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot 3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan 2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate 1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Hobbit will almost certainly hold up as a bona fide chapter in a larger classic film series, despite the mixed and overly cynical reviews. .
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 5:59am
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yepper!
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swordwhale
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Jan 19 2013, 6:14am
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Quite true. What I think some forget (and the mixing in of Thror's fate doubtless muddied it further)
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:30am
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Nothing to add except
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SirDennisC
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Jan 19 2013, 6:40am
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Yes. Unless they sold them, which seems utterly improbable. New Line was already a division of AOL/Time Warner
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:51am
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It will hold up
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imin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:57am
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fine line indeed. That's what is so hard here, for us as fans to comment on... though we still have a concept of how good it was of course.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 19 2013, 12:27pm
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A 6-er box will definitely occur
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Estel78
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Jan 19 2013, 1:00pm
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Funny parts of the film
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ceppault
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Jan 19 2013, 3:32pm
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I am fairly confident that had this film managed to get made and released 13 years ago
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm
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Trying to make a prequel is the root of the problem
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:49am
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Book adaptation versus written for the screen.
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
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The threat of death is not neccessary for Drama. I don't need to fear that Margret Thatcher will be eaten by a shark
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:21pm
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There's very little drama in the necromancer story thread
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 7:38pm
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Using the length of the book as criticism of the three film format.
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 21 2013, 3:18pm
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It's one of those movies
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Súlimë
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Jan 19 2013, 2:45pm
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Exactly my sentiment.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 8:50pm
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Pretty spot on my friend
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Elessar
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Jan 19 2013, 3:26pm
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Thank you, Friend
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:37pm
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My pleasure
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:25am
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I am more or less of the same mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:52pm
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I beg to disagree
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:30pm
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And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
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Agreed
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:37pm
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And some are pretty
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:34pm
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I guess
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:40pm
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Lol!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:41pm
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Captain Salt,does quoting yourself make the point stronger? =)
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm
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Black Breathalizer, and YOUR point is what, exactly? =) //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 7:26pm
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But, art being subjective, there are no facts of good versus bad. Only matters of taste.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:15pm
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Everything's subjective, and taste
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 20 2013, 8:02pm
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Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress?
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
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a rebuttal
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
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I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:21am
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Again, this is simply not the case:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:14am
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll that typing I did to specifically respond to all that your long , 7
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:45am
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Bilbo fretting over his handkerchief is from the book.
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 9:48pm
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I put more stock in what was impressive.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:03am
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I won't refute all of your counter-arguments, as clearly we're not going to agree
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:57am
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Fair enough
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 7:06am
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Never mind, I've responsed to your considerable arguments in full (see above):
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:35am
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Well actually, I'll just respond to your previous post in full:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:34am
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Thank you for the careful and thoughtful response. There remain matters on which
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 23 2013, 10:58pm
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There's room for everyone here
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 7:59pm
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I was responding to this comment, actually:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:08pm
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The same applies to that comment
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 8:40pm
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Your very negative comments regarding fellow posters is uncalled for.
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Old Toby
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Jan 21 2013, 4:51am
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Thanks very much for sharing.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:42am
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*points to top of the board*
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Silverlode
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Jan 21 2013, 6:52am
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I certainly hope he replies
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:56am
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Don't agree at all...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 4:41pm
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Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and varying tastes.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:03pm
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Have the opposite reaction
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IdrilofGondolin
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Jan 20 2013, 12:34am
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Um, I assume you only speak for yourself
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:27am
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I agree
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peace1993
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Jan 19 2013, 6:25pm
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The same criticisms were said of FotR...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 6:59pm
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Not really, no.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm
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I explained...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm
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And I'm saying
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:58pm
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No, many are not of that opinion...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:18pm
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In fact just the opposite...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:30pm
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I don't think anyone is saying...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 9:01pm
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*bangs head on keyboard*
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Roheryn
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Nice way of putting it...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 10:51pm
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You're a breath of fresh air here!
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:45am
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I'm kind of curious if this is age related at all
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Magpie
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Jan 20 2013, 3:05am
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Could be...
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 4:09am
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Flawlessly stated.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:02am
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My rants
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:41am
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Maybe not an important thought
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Elessar
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Jan 21 2013, 10:22pm
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More like a breath of rather old air. :-)
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 3:56am
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Yay Ro!
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 3:25am
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No,
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Starling
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Jan 20 2013, 3:35am
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If I dig deep enough, I can find all kinds of fault with LOTR as movies.
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Kimtc
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Jan 20 2013, 3:58am
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*bangs self on keyboard*
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:17pm
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That's not the situation
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peace1993
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Jan 20 2013, 4:12am
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And the echo chamber/group think/fan denial continues... //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:18pm
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Disagreement with an OPINION is not "denial", "group think", nor "echo chamber"//
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Kirly
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Jan 20 2013, 10:47pm
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at some point, you have to consider that someone is just yanking people's chains
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 1:30am
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I have only just returned for a short time, but yes, began to think that yesterday.//
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Kirly
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Jan 21 2013, 2:21am
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I don't know. I don't think being indelicate or over genralizing are definite signs of a Troll.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 3:10am
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I don't necessarily think people who like to yank chains are trolls
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 4:24pm
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Eh, no but the kneejerk response of:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:20am
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Yes they were..
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm
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Thank you...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:35pm
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A film should work on its own merrits.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:52pm
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FotR got a good critical response...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Oscars and critics two different ball games
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 11:16pm
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...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:56pm
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I think we may agrere to disagree on the post-modern politics of criticism but..
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glor
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Jan 20 2013, 12:37am
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Thank you!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:21pm
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Pre-release Fan Expectations for AUJ & FOTR
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 4:41pm
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Thank you :)
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bborchar
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Jan 20 2013, 5:31pm
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Can't speak for everyone
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Grant
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Jan 19 2013, 7:04pm
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It will sit fairly well next to LOTR on a shelf, but...
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jtarkey
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Jan 19 2013, 9:22pm
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The only review I really care about
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Kangi Ska
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Jan 20 2013, 5:21am
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45 years is a long time to wait. .and PJ didn't..
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Bombadil
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Jan 20 2013, 7:02am
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