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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
Views: 549
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And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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And they may yet reveal that he was driven to that sickness in no small part by the Ring on which so much of the wealth of Erebor was founded, for there is certainly a ring very alike in design to the Dwarf Rings shown in Fellowship. They don't have to show him dithering. They don't even have to represent it as him having gone with only one companion. And, after all, he doesn't KNOW the orcs are there. He doesn't even know the Balrog is still there (indeed, he certainly does not imagine that matter of horror legend is still present, or he never would have gone, and certainly not without an army). And the Ring and the discontent unto folly are part of the tale. And, say what you will, the impact, the sacking of one goblin city after another, the "hunting for Azog in every den under the mountain,". . .just POTENT, more so that what this film gave. You can have your own opinion, but you won't be changing mine. Anyway, that is not at all the point of this thread. This thread is about something we agree on, after all. That this was, despite its flaws, a good movie. Right . Yes. So no need for semantic arguments. AinurOlorin wrote: as I have said, there were a few things I REALLY didn't like, not as a matter of presentation but of context, the Dwarven history changes chief among them, because the actual story is so powerful. We've discussed this before. While I can appreciate your love of the actual history, it has nothing to do with Jackson's version of the tale. Showing us Thror attempted to reclaim Moria alone is totally irrelevant to the telling of the story of the Hobbit. What Jackson wants his audience to know from the Battle of Azanulbizar sequence is: 1) There is a long blood feud between the orcs and the dwarves. 2) As a follow-up to the Fall of Erebor sequence, the battle reemphasizes that Thror was a incredibly proud and self-assured leader (in fact, Elrond comments later in AUJ that Thorin reminds him of his grandfather.) 3) The Azog versus Thorin feud started there. 4) That the battle was where Thorin got his nickname Oakenshield. 5) That the battle was where Thorin stepped forward and became a respected and honored leader in the eyes of hardened warriors like Balin and Dwalin. If Jackson doesn't revise Tolkien's history to streamline Balin's retelling of the Battle of Azanlbizar to make these key points, the film makers have a lot of extra--and unnecessary--explaining to do. One of the most awkward issues that a strict adherence to Tolkien's history would raise is Thror's death at the hands of Azog in Moria that started the animosity between the two races. Explain to me how the audience can maintain the image of Thror as a strong, dignified, self-assured leader instead of a crazy old fool if they show him attempting to claim Moria alone? I fail to understand how a film presentation of Thror's 'Don Quixote' like quest adds anything, let alone something more emotional powerful, to the film. "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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User
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Time
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The Hobbit will almost certainly hold up as a bona fide chapter in a larger classic film series, despite the mixed and overly cynical reviews. .
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 5:59am
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yepper!
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swordwhale
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Jan 19 2013, 6:14am
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Quite true. What I think some forget (and the mixing in of Thror's fate doubtless muddied it further)
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:30am
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Nothing to add except
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SirDennisC
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Jan 19 2013, 6:40am
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Yes. Unless they sold them, which seems utterly improbable. New Line was already a division of AOL/Time Warner
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:51am
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It will hold up
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imin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:57am
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fine line indeed. That's what is so hard here, for us as fans to comment on... though we still have a concept of how good it was of course.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 19 2013, 12:27pm
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A 6-er box will definitely occur
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Estel78
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Jan 19 2013, 1:00pm
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Funny parts of the film
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ceppault
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Jan 19 2013, 3:32pm
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I am fairly confident that had this film managed to get made and released 13 years ago
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm
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Trying to make a prequel is the root of the problem
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:49am
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Book adaptation versus written for the screen.
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
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The threat of death is not neccessary for Drama. I don't need to fear that Margret Thatcher will be eaten by a shark
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:21pm
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There's very little drama in the necromancer story thread
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 7:38pm
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Using the length of the book as criticism of the three film format.
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 21 2013, 3:18pm
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It's one of those movies
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Súlimë
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Jan 19 2013, 2:45pm
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Exactly my sentiment.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 8:50pm
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Pretty spot on my friend
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Elessar
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Jan 19 2013, 3:26pm
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Thank you, Friend
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:37pm
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My pleasure
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:25am
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I am more or less of the same mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:52pm
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I beg to disagree
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:30pm
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And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
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Agreed
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:37pm
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And some are pretty
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:34pm
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I guess
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:40pm
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Lol!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:41pm
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Captain Salt,does quoting yourself make the point stronger? =)
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm
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Black Breathalizer, and YOUR point is what, exactly? =) //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 7:26pm
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But, art being subjective, there are no facts of good versus bad. Only matters of taste.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:15pm
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Everything's subjective, and taste
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 20 2013, 8:02pm
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Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress?
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
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a rebuttal
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
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I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:21am
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Again, this is simply not the case:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:14am
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll that typing I did to specifically respond to all that your long , 7
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:45am
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Bilbo fretting over his handkerchief is from the book.
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 9:48pm
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I put more stock in what was impressive.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:03am
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I won't refute all of your counter-arguments, as clearly we're not going to agree
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:57am
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Fair enough
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 7:06am
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Never mind, I've responsed to your considerable arguments in full (see above):
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:35am
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Well actually, I'll just respond to your previous post in full:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:34am
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Thank you for the careful and thoughtful response. There remain matters on which
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 23 2013, 10:58pm
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There's room for everyone here
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 7:59pm
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I was responding to this comment, actually:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:08pm
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The same applies to that comment
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 8:40pm
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Your very negative comments regarding fellow posters is uncalled for.
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Old Toby
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Jan 21 2013, 4:51am
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Thanks very much for sharing.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:42am
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*points to top of the board*
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Silverlode
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Jan 21 2013, 6:52am
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I certainly hope he replies
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:56am
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Don't agree at all...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 4:41pm
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Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and varying tastes.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:03pm
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Have the opposite reaction
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IdrilofGondolin
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Jan 20 2013, 12:34am
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Um, I assume you only speak for yourself
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:27am
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I agree
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peace1993
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Jan 19 2013, 6:25pm
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The same criticisms were said of FotR...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 6:59pm
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Not really, no.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm
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I explained...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm
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And I'm saying
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:58pm
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No, many are not of that opinion...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:18pm
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In fact just the opposite...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:30pm
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I don't think anyone is saying...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 9:01pm
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*bangs head on keyboard*
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Roheryn
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Nice way of putting it...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 10:51pm
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You're a breath of fresh air here!
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:45am
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I'm kind of curious if this is age related at all
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Magpie
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Jan 20 2013, 3:05am
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Could be...
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 4:09am
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Flawlessly stated.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:02am
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My rants
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:41am
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Maybe not an important thought
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Elessar
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Jan 21 2013, 10:22pm
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More like a breath of rather old air. :-)
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 3:56am
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Yay Ro!
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 3:25am
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No,
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Starling
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Jan 20 2013, 3:35am
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If I dig deep enough, I can find all kinds of fault with LOTR as movies.
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Kimtc
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Jan 20 2013, 3:58am
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*bangs self on keyboard*
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:17pm
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That's not the situation
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peace1993
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Jan 20 2013, 4:12am
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And the echo chamber/group think/fan denial continues... //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:18pm
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Disagreement with an OPINION is not "denial", "group think", nor "echo chamber"//
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Kirly
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Jan 20 2013, 10:47pm
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at some point, you have to consider that someone is just yanking people's chains
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 1:30am
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I have only just returned for a short time, but yes, began to think that yesterday.//
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Kirly
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Jan 21 2013, 2:21am
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I don't know. I don't think being indelicate or over genralizing are definite signs of a Troll.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 3:10am
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I don't necessarily think people who like to yank chains are trolls
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 4:24pm
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Eh, no but the kneejerk response of:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:20am
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Yes they were..
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm
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Thank you...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:35pm
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A film should work on its own merrits.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:52pm
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FotR got a good critical response...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Oscars and critics two different ball games
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 11:16pm
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...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:56pm
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I think we may agrere to disagree on the post-modern politics of criticism but..
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glor
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Jan 20 2013, 12:37am
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Thank you!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:21pm
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Pre-release Fan Expectations for AUJ & FOTR
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 4:41pm
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Thank you :)
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bborchar
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Jan 20 2013, 5:31pm
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Can't speak for everyone
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Grant
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Jan 19 2013, 7:04pm
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It will sit fairly well next to LOTR on a shelf, but...
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jtarkey
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Jan 19 2013, 9:22pm
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The only review I really care about
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Kangi Ska
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Jan 20 2013, 5:21am
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45 years is a long time to wait. .and PJ didn't..
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Bombadil
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Jan 20 2013, 7:02am
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