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glor
Rohan
Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
Views: 944
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Book adaptation versus written for the screen.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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The Star Wars prequels are viewed by many as bone fide chapters in the film series In a film series, The Hobbit is not a story purposefully created for the screen, it happens to be a film prequel because it was written by Tolkien prior to LOTR, and yet filmed after the movie adaptation of LOTR. The Hobbit is not a story specifically and purposefully created to fit around the LOTR film universe, unlike the Star Wars prequels. I must confess I am not a Star Wars fan, so I am bias. I saw the original Star wars in 1977 aged 10 after nagging my mother to take me to the cinema for ages and, whilst I enjoyed it's visual spectacle, I and my harrased mother recall my comment on leaving the cinema, that Obi-Wan Kenobi was like a Rubbish Gandalf and that Luke's destroying of the Death Star by learning of the weak spot air vent, was just like how they killed Smaug. I never saw Empire or Return at the cinemas just caught them on (network) TV when they debuted on the small screen. Whilst I know that Star Wars fans will dispute this, Star Wars wasn't even a trilogy to start with, the prequels were simply written as prequels, so that George Lucas could show off his new fangled CGI and make money, they were deliberately created hook, line and sinker to fulfill that purpose, no literature, no 75 year old books, no, well you get the point. Note: I understand why other people enjoy the Star Wars thing and if that's what they wish to geek out on, then all well and good. I saw the Phantom menance at the cinema because I had a 10 year old son that nagged me to take him, and I have seen Attack of the Clones on TV several times( i enjoyed that one the most, but for all the wrong reasons). The Hobbit is not a prequel in the conventional cinematic sense, it's just a case of Tolkien's works being filmed in reverse order. It is, I think unique in film adaptation in that, two interconnected novels, have been filmed out of sequence with the latter being adapted before the former and I would add, because of film rights issues. the necromancer prequel storyline cannot have any real drama, as all characters must live to fight another day in LotR. Not necessarily, Radagast? Plus of course, we know there will be sufficient major character deaths in the Hobbit to give tension and drama. Although I did read a couple of professional reviews of AUJ, slatting the film because apparently these critics knew that not one major character would die by the end of The Hobbit trilogy.......(head desk). I understand why some people don't enjoy or like the Dol Guldur subplot, but it isn't something that only exists in PJs imagination, and for the purpose of cinema, you do need to explain Gandalf's disappearances in The Hobbit, film has a different narrative logic to literature. For those that haven't read their Tolkien, they have yet to discover that the Necromancer is really Sauron, so there will be a dramatic revelation for those whose M-E experience is based only on the films. In Phantom, the two main jedi characters stride on with no introduction and have light-sabred their way through a hundred robots by the end of scene 2. The whole film has no real character drama, and is an extended CGI thrill-ride. There is a reason for that and this for me is the major difference. George Lucas takes good and great actors and makes them perform terribly on screen, as a visual storyteller GL is good, but he simply IMHO doesn't get acting, drama is conveyed via performance, not just script and pacing. A lot of CGI based films do this, they forget about the acting and go for the spectacle, this is the one thing that almost all of the negative reviews of AUJ, even the most damning have actually praised or at least acknowledged, that AUJ is well acted. Getting believable performances in CGI films, in fact getting good performances in any type of fantasy film(sci-fi is different as it is a broader genre and therefore harder to draw comparisons) is something many film-makers struggle with, as the last 10 years of badly acted fantasy films have shown, except for certain performances in Harry Potter. ( if anyone can point to me any film made since LOTR than meets those acting standards, please do, I would be very grateful to be corrected on this particular matter) If the Star Wars prequels had featured Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman etc, at the top of their acting game they would have been good if not great films and not just CGI fests. The other major difference is their cinematic ratings or classifications, the whole LOTR/Hobbit films have been funded, based and pushed the limits of pg-13,thus allowing for a more adult dramatic approach, than the Star wars films did. Again I honestly think the SW prequels would have been far better if all of them had been allowed/made with a pg-13 rating.
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Time
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The Hobbit will almost certainly hold up as a bona fide chapter in a larger classic film series, despite the mixed and overly cynical reviews. .
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 5:59am
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yepper!
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swordwhale
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Jan 19 2013, 6:14am
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Quite true. What I think some forget (and the mixing in of Thror's fate doubtless muddied it further)
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:30am
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Nothing to add except
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SirDennisC
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Jan 19 2013, 6:40am
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Yes. Unless they sold them, which seems utterly improbable. New Line was already a division of AOL/Time Warner
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 6:51am
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It will hold up
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imin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:57am
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fine line indeed. That's what is so hard here, for us as fans to comment on... though we still have a concept of how good it was of course.
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Xanaseb
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Jan 19 2013, 12:27pm
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A 6-er box will definitely occur
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Estel78
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Jan 19 2013, 1:00pm
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Funny parts of the film
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ceppault
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Jan 19 2013, 3:32pm
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I am fairly confident that had this film managed to get made and released 13 years ago
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:15pm
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Trying to make a prequel is the root of the problem
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:49am
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Book adaptation versus written for the screen.
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 3:39pm
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The threat of death is not neccessary for Drama. I don't need to fear that Margret Thatcher will be eaten by a shark
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 7:21pm
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There's very little drama in the necromancer story thread
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 7:38pm
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Using the length of the book as criticism of the three film format.
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 21 2013, 3:18pm
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It's one of those movies
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Súlimë
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Jan 19 2013, 2:45pm
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Exactly my sentiment.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 8:50pm
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Pretty spot on my friend
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Elessar
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Jan 19 2013, 3:26pm
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Thank you, Friend
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:37pm
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My pleasure
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:25am
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I am more or less of the same mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:52pm
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I beg to disagree
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:30pm
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And yet Thror had gone mad. The movie already tells you as much. He had succumbed to "a sickness" of the mind.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:03pm
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Agreed
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:37pm
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And some are pretty
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:34pm
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I guess
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 6:40pm
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Lol!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:41pm
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Captain Salt,does quoting yourself make the point stronger? =)
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 6:54pm
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Black Breathalizer, and YOUR point is what, exactly? =) //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 7:26pm
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But, art being subjective, there are no facts of good versus bad. Only matters of taste.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 7:15pm
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Everything's subjective, and taste
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 20 2013, 8:02pm
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Well, shall we count what ways that AUJ failed to impress?
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:03pm
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a rebuttal
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 9:24pm
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I agree thoroughly about the dwarves, and largely about the humour.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:21am
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Again, this is simply not the case:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:14am
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll that typing I did to specifically respond to all that your long , 7
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:45am
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Bilbo fretting over his handkerchief is from the book.
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 9:48pm
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I put more stock in what was impressive.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 12:03am
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I won't refute all of your counter-arguments, as clearly we're not going to agree
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:57am
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Fair enough
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 7:06am
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Never mind, I've responsed to your considerable arguments in full (see above):
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:35am
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Well actually, I'll just respond to your previous post in full:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 7:34am
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Thank you for the careful and thoughtful response. There remain matters on which
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 23 2013, 10:58pm
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There's room for everyone here
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 7:59pm
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I was responding to this comment, actually:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 8:08pm
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The same applies to that comment
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Altaira
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Jan 20 2013, 8:40pm
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Your very negative comments regarding fellow posters is uncalled for.
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Old Toby
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Jan 21 2013, 4:51am
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Thanks very much for sharing.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:42am
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*points to top of the board*
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Silverlode
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Jan 21 2013, 6:52am
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I certainly hope he replies
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 6:56am
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Don't agree at all...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 4:41pm
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Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and varying tastes.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 19 2013, 9:03pm
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Have the opposite reaction
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IdrilofGondolin
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Jan 20 2013, 12:34am
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Um, I assume you only speak for yourself
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:27am
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I agree
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peace1993
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Jan 19 2013, 6:25pm
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The same criticisms were said of FotR...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 6:59pm
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Not really, no.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:09pm
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I explained...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 7:34pm
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And I'm saying
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 7:58pm
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No, many are not of that opinion...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:18pm
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In fact just the opposite...
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:30pm
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I don't think anyone is saying...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 9:01pm
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*bangs head on keyboard*
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Roheryn
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Nice way of putting it...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 10:51pm
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You're a breath of fresh air here!
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Old Toby
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Jan 20 2013, 2:45am
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I'm kind of curious if this is age related at all
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Magpie
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Jan 20 2013, 3:05am
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Could be...
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 4:09am
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Flawlessly stated.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 20 2013, 5:02am
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My rants
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Elessar
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Jan 20 2013, 7:41am
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Maybe not an important thought
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Elessar
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Jan 21 2013, 10:22pm
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More like a breath of rather old air. :-)
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Roheryn
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Jan 20 2013, 3:56am
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Yay Ro!
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entmaiden
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Jan 20 2013, 3:25am
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No,
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Starling
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Jan 20 2013, 3:35am
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If I dig deep enough, I can find all kinds of fault with LOTR as movies.
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Kimtc
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Jan 20 2013, 3:58am
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*bangs self on keyboard*
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:17pm
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That's not the situation
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peace1993
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Jan 20 2013, 4:12am
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And the echo chamber/group think/fan denial continues... //
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:18pm
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Disagreement with an OPINION is not "denial", "group think", nor "echo chamber"//
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Kirly
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Jan 20 2013, 10:47pm
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at some point, you have to consider that someone is just yanking people's chains
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 1:30am
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I have only just returned for a short time, but yes, began to think that yesterday.//
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Kirly
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Jan 21 2013, 2:21am
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I don't know. I don't think being indelicate or over genralizing are definite signs of a Troll.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 21 2013, 3:10am
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I don't necessarily think people who like to yank chains are trolls
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Magpie
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Jan 21 2013, 4:24pm
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Eh, no but the kneejerk response of:
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Captain Salt
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Jan 21 2013, 6:20am
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Yes they were..
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 8:20pm
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Thank you...
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bborchar
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Jan 19 2013, 8:35pm
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A film should work on its own merrits.
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Captain Salt
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Jan 19 2013, 8:52pm
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FotR got a good critical response...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 9:26pm
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Oscars and critics two different ball games
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glor
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Jan 19 2013, 11:16pm
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...
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burrahobbit
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Jan 19 2013, 11:56pm
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I think we may agrere to disagree on the post-modern politics of criticism but..
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glor
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Jan 20 2013, 12:37am
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Thank you!
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Captain Salt
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Jan 20 2013, 6:21pm
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Pre-release Fan Expectations for AUJ & FOTR
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Black Breathalizer
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Jan 20 2013, 4:41pm
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Thank you :)
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bborchar
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Jan 20 2013, 5:31pm
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Can't speak for everyone
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Grant
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Jan 19 2013, 7:04pm
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It will sit fairly well next to LOTR on a shelf, but...
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jtarkey
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Jan 19 2013, 9:22pm
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The only review I really care about
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Kangi Ska
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Jan 20 2013, 5:21am
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45 years is a long time to wait. .and PJ didn't..
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Bombadil
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Jan 20 2013, 7:02am
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