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Gwenhwyfar
The Shire
Jan 17 2013, 8:30pm
Views: 550
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I may be missing something obvious due to the lack of recency in my readings, but I never thought of dragons as inherently evil -- at least not in the same sense as Morgoth and his perversions. Is that clearly stated? (If so, my apologies! Please ignore this paragraph.) I viewed dragons as natural predators whose wicked ways are on a similar moral level to a cat that teases a mouse before eating it; it may not sound very nice to us, but the creature can't be blamed for being what it is. Tolkien doesn't seem to spend much time writing about non-corrupted predatory animals and, if he does (as in the case of the eagles), it is without sentimentalizing them (i.e. Bilbo worries, with good reason, that the eagles could eat him, but that doesn't make them evil, even if they do think he looks like a rabbit and they admit to eating human farmers' sheep sometimes). Dragons, like spiders and wolves, have natural tendencies that could be of value to evil people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the whole species was bred as a corrupt life-form. I suppose my question is: How do we tell the difference between the moral standards that do or should apply to "people" and "animals" in Tolkien's work? If a fairy story can have talking animals, it seems like a fair question.
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User
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Time
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 16 2013, 1:37am
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I'd be interested to know why that bothers you.
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Ataahua
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Jan 16 2013, 2:51am
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 16 2013, 3:56am
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Well, Melkor and Sauron started out as pure, higher beings...
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 4:49am
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immortal orks
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Elthir
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Jan 16 2013, 4:21pm
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Add Orcs to the Bombadil and other origin mystery list.
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 5:48pm
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I think it's really disturbing that Orcs may be descended from Elves
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DanielLB
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Jan 16 2013, 9:51am
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I actually like it!
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Súlimë
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Jan 16 2013, 10:05am
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Welcome to TORn!
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sador
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Jan 16 2013, 3:38pm
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I agree, the elvish origin idea has too many problems
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 3:22pm
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However, if the orcs are like dwarves as first made by Aule
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 3:37pm
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Perhaps trolls could not reproduce?
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 16 2013, 3:48pm
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Treebeard said that trolls were made in mockery of Ents
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 7:29pm
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If Morgoth used Ents as a "template" for Trolls,
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 16 2013, 7:56pm
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That doesn't mean that Ents were corrupted to become trolls...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 16 2013, 8:17pm
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Trolls and Ents and Orcs
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 9:23pm
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Orcs from Elves
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
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Jan 17 2013, 4:56am
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Great points//
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 12:55pm
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It may interest you to know
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Roheryn
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Jan 17 2013, 8:44am
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Ooops! Channelling my better half! Sorry.\\
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NZ Strider
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Jan 17 2013, 9:11am
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But then there is the problem of chronology....
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 17 2013, 4:45pm
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Chronology
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:56pm
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Certainly; however, Tolkien was always obsessively
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NZ Strider
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Jan 17 2013, 8:45pm
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You raise a good point...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 18 2013, 3:31am
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 17 2013, 2:09pm
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orcs from elves
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andwise
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Jan 17 2013, 2:24pm
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"The Kinslaying", over and over again
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 4:14pm
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Men... the' final' idea?
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:39pm
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dogs from wolves
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elevorn
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Jan 17 2013, 5:20pm
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If you as I take Orcs corrupted from Elves as canon
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Asger
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Jan 17 2013, 8:16pm
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made in mockery
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:08pm
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Back to dragons
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 4:23pm
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There is something almost 'saurian' about dragons...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 17 2013, 4:55pm
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On dragons
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Gwenhwyfar
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Jan 17 2013, 8:30pm
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Dragons
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
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Jan 18 2013, 1:54am
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Fast forward to "Of the Return of the Noldor" for dragon origins
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CuriousG
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Jan 18 2013, 7:15am
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