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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jan 17 2013, 4:23pm
Views: 883
Shortcut
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I don't want to be dogmatic in insisting on consistency in Tolkien, but this discussion brings up the origins of dragons. Were they made in mockery of garden lizards? That seems unlikely since it's such a huge stretch. Or Maiar? Possibly, but they seem more mortal than a Balrog, and more original. There's just something about them that seems to be created from scratch, though I readily admit I can't point to any evidence; it's a gut feeling on interpretation. Other creatures like winged Nazgul beasts and Carcharoth are clearly taken from existing animals and grown into larger ones, but I think the difference in scale from the original state to the enhanced one is not that great, not when compared to a dragon and a garden lizard. I suppose there could have been giant lizards unknown to most Eldar that Morgoth enhanced to be his servants, and then he wouldn't have created them. This is all meandering speculation and hard to nail it down.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 16 2013, 1:37am
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I'd be interested to know why that bothers you.
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Ataahua
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Jan 16 2013, 2:51am
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 16 2013, 3:56am
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Well, Melkor and Sauron started out as pure, higher beings...
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 4:49am
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immortal orks
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Elthir
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Jan 16 2013, 4:21pm
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Add Orcs to the Bombadil and other origin mystery list.
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 5:48pm
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I think it's really disturbing that Orcs may be descended from Elves
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DanielLB
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Jan 16 2013, 9:51am
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I actually like it!
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Súlimë
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Jan 16 2013, 10:05am
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Welcome to TORn!
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sador
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Jan 16 2013, 3:38pm
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I agree, the elvish origin idea has too many problems
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 3:22pm
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However, if the orcs are like dwarves as first made by Aule
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Eruonen
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Jan 16 2013, 3:37pm
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Perhaps trolls could not reproduce?
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 16 2013, 3:48pm
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Treebeard said that trolls were made in mockery of Ents
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 7:29pm
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If Morgoth used Ents as a "template" for Trolls,
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 16 2013, 7:56pm
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That doesn't mean that Ents were corrupted to become trolls...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 16 2013, 8:17pm
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Trolls and Ents and Orcs
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 9:23pm
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Orcs from Elves
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
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Jan 17 2013, 4:56am
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Great points//
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 12:55pm
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It may interest you to know
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Roheryn
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Jan 17 2013, 8:44am
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Ooops! Channelling my better half! Sorry.\\
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NZ Strider
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Jan 17 2013, 9:11am
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But then there is the problem of chronology....
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 17 2013, 4:45pm
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Chronology
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:56pm
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Certainly; however, Tolkien was always obsessively
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NZ Strider
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Jan 17 2013, 8:45pm
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You raise a good point...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 18 2013, 3:31am
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Origin of Orcs
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Eowyn3
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Jan 17 2013, 2:09pm
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orcs from elves
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andwise
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Jan 17 2013, 2:24pm
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"The Kinslaying", over and over again
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 4:14pm
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Men... the' final' idea?
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:39pm
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dogs from wolves
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elevorn
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Jan 17 2013, 5:20pm
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If you as I take Orcs corrupted from Elves as canon
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Asger
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Jan 17 2013, 8:16pm
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made in mockery
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Elthir
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Jan 17 2013, 4:08pm
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Back to dragons
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CuriousG
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Jan 17 2013, 4:23pm
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There is something almost 'saurian' about dragons...
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Otaku-sempai
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Jan 17 2013, 4:55pm
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On dragons
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Gwenhwyfar
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Jan 17 2013, 8:30pm
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Dragons
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Fredeghar Wayfarer
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Jan 18 2013, 1:54am
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Fast forward to "Of the Return of the Noldor" for dragon origins
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CuriousG
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Jan 18 2013, 7:15am
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