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logical and intuitive?

telain
Rohan

Jan 16 2013, 4:50pm


Views: 1074
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logical and intuitive? [In reply to] Can't Post

When I reread the first few chapters last night, I got the impression that allegiance to Eru was the benchmark of morality. We start having a problem when a Valar:
a) desires to be either more powerful than the others or more/at least as powerful as Eru,
b) desires/begins to create non-Eru music/creations (i.e., loss of harmony with the established Music is morally bad), or
c) desires/begins to disrupt the creations of either Eru or the Valar who are in keeping with Eru's harmony.

The values you describe

Quote
How about other qualities that we consider virtuous? Are they more honest, humble, loving, selfless, protective of the weak, generous, brave, seeing the best in everyone?

are tricky because they are ones that mortal, finite creatures might subscribe to (and maybe not even all mortal or finite creatures). Not to lean on such a well-worn argument, but it would be difficult to understand just what the Valar thought was "moral" or "virtuous", or even if they thought about things in those ways. Perhaps "allowing" elves and men to find their own way is a moral dictate that, when we consider it long enough, is for us far preferable to being more overtly directed -- as I am sure Melkor and/or Sauron would have wanted.

But the question about why evil persists is an interesting one and I agree, CuriousG, that all or most cosmologies have to deal with. I wonder that any type of destruction -- even the destruction of something evil -- is an evil itself. Can "ultimate good" be responsible for "ultimate destruction"? On the one hand, saving good/neutral beings from destruction by evil is a good in itself, but (as a few have suggested) the absolute termination of an evil precludes the ability to be reformed.

But, then, I'm just thinking out loud and will probably contradict myself before too long... Perhaps there is a certain arrogance to ultimate good... and ultimate evil...

Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Of the Beginning of Days noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 14 2013, 4:29pm
    a lamp theory :), returning evil, and beautiful trees hanne Send a private message to hanne Jan 15 2013, 2:47am
        2 trees CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 2:59am
    Time and Valinor elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Jan 15 2013, 3:58pm
        Lamps, regrouping evil and selfish Valar noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 15 2013, 8:29pm
            yes, it does elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Jan 15 2013, 8:43pm
                When you put it that way, it is a hole CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 2:21am
    Inevitable evil Mim Send a private message to Mim Jan 15 2013, 10:35pm
        Is evil logical or intuitive? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 2:08am
            logical and intuitive? telain Send a private message to telain Jan 16 2013, 4:50pm
            The reader knows evil when they see it Mim Send a private message to Mim Jan 17 2013, 11:38am
                The next chapter is underway ! noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 24 2013, 9:42pm
    Even immortal elves can't escape Death and Taxes (VATs) CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 2:53am
        Nature is violent... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jan 16 2013, 3:59pm
            TV nature specials CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 7:42pm
    Very late answers sador Send a private message to sador Feb 4 2013, 3:23pm
        Very welcome answers: I don't think "late" is a problem! // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Feb 4 2013, 3:32pm
        Secretly an Ent? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Feb 4 2013, 7:37pm

 
 
 

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