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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Good point about no one to sing to

CuriousG
Valinor


Jan 16 2013, 3:28am


Views: 60
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Good point about no one to sing to [In reply to] Can't Post

If Eru is alone, he has only his thoughts to keep him company, so the Ainur spring from his thoughts. Though if he had Bombadil's personality, he'd be singing to himself all the time. Do you suppose the Great Music was really a bunch of "merry dol! derry dol!"?

It makes sense that Manwe was chosen to lead the Valar against his brother, but Tolkien could have made Ulmo Melkor's brother. I don't want to beat a dead horse, however, or even a dead Vala.

I like your point about deception being Melkor's sin. It was Sauron's too, who feigned to himself after Melkor's great defeat that he really would shape up and behave like a good guy, but like an addict, he fell back into his old ways. (Is there a 12-step program for fallen angels?)

Something else dysfunctional about Melkor is that he seems angry ALL THE TIME. I suppose that explains his motives for being so destructive, because if you're happy and calm you don't usually topple mountains. I wonder if professional psychologists have a field day reading about him.

The Void: there is some scant mention of Iluvatar making regions for the Ainur to dwell in before Arda is made, and that's regions in the plural. That seems to imply some sort of non-chaotic chunk of Existence. It's never clear to me if Existence according to Tolkien is Order surrounded by Chaos, or just Order. But I did read that quite a few creation myths see chaos first, then creation bringing order to it. Seems to be a human psyche thing.

Thanks for connecting the two stories of Genesis to Tolkien's 2-part creation--makes a lot of sense, and I'd never see that on my own.

Re: music passing away: I vote for intangible.

And for fire and Arda, excellent observation about the contradiction. Flame Imperishable shouldn't perish, and Melkor shouldn't really be coveting his own flames. Maybe that should be taken very loosely, just that the Earth was fresh and "hot out of the oven." Anyone who loves bread like me covets it when it's fresh!

Subject User Time
The Silmarillion discussion: Ainulindale CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 31 2012, 3:38am
    Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG! Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
        Why not sing the Aunur? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 31 2012, 10:22pm
            Tolkien seemed to have the same sentiments about evil CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 31 2012, 10:31pm
                Where it starts... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 31 2012, 10:53pm
        Nice--thought to music to sound CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 10:30pm
            Ulmo Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 2 2013, 5:15pm
                Sorry, I wasn't clear CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 2 2013, 6:37pm
                    Well, no... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 4 2013, 12:41am
        Regarding Ulmo Cyberia Send a private message to Cyberia Jan 2 2013, 8:09am
            I actually don't see the similarity Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 2 2013, 5:19pm
        saying Eä Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 9:32pm
    Hark to those herald angels singing squire Send a private message to squire Jan 1 2013, 2:35pm
        Excellent point CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm
            Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse squire Send a private message to squire Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
                Excellent insight--many thanks! // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 2 2013, 8:14pm
        Another sung creation- the Kalevala noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 3 2013, 4:54pm
        Creation is song The Gardener Send a private message to The Gardener Jan 5 2013, 6:00am
            Where's Eve? Or Varda? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 5 2013, 7:40am
                No women were mentioned by name Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 8:45pm
            Worship of Creation is song squire Send a private message to squire Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
    Should have read the brochure? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 1 2013, 7:14pm
        It does strike me every time I read it CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 9:25pm
        If we read that passage, perhaps it is not so clear Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 12 2013, 9:02pm
            I wonder about Tulkas leaving CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 3:30am
    Modern myth from modern things Mim Send a private message to Mim Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm
        Thanks--great points, especially CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 1 2013, 9:21pm
        myth and music (and Manwe) telain Send a private message to telain Jan 8 2013, 6:11pm
    I wonder if the creation myth of Arda was analogous to Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Jan 2 2013, 3:26am
    He was not far off of reality either............ Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Jan 4 2013, 9:31pm
    Tolkien's Representation of the Trinity KingTurgon Send a private message to KingTurgon Jan 4 2013, 9:45pm
        Jesus is Jesus Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 4 2013, 10:12pm
        For JRRT the events of ME were prior to Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Jan 4 2013, 11:18pm
        Gandalf, in some ways CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 4 2013, 11:32pm
            Allegories - Contrast to The Lord of the Rings? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 5 2013, 9:03am
                Earlier post KingTurgon Send a private message to KingTurgon Jan 7 2013, 8:25pm
        Jesus Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 5:56pm
            Interesting idea- glad you posted it // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 6 2013, 7:09pm
            I know this isn't really a religion thread, but... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 6 2013, 8:02pm
                Maybe "reluctant" isn't quite right, Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 8:41pm
                    Ah that passage Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jan 6 2013, 11:20pm
            Everyone's welcome to join in CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 9:14pm
                Thank you, and my apologies to Ardamire Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 10:19pm
    Without wishing to curtail this discussion- what are our plans for the next chapter? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 6 2013, 10:15pm
        We can take turns. Whoever wants to do the Valaquenta, just say so, and post when you'd like.// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 10:28pm
            Didn't get my edit inserted in time. More info: CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 6 2013, 10:51pm
                I will take the Reading Room to Valaquenta, though I... do not know the way. :) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jan 7 2013, 1:02pm
    A Beautiful Creation Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Jan 6 2013, 10:24pm
    I looove this "chapter" Oiotári Send a private message to Oiotári Jan 11 2013, 6:20am
        Good point about no one to sing to CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 16 2013, 3:28am
    Late for the party sador Send a private message to sador Jan 16 2013, 10:52am

 
 
 

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