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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Jan 13 2013, 1:08am
Views: 223
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Because Moria has been brought into the films. At least, that is my rationale for
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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giving some commentary on The Balrog, though Balin is also a reason. Balin is mentioned by name, repeatedly in Fellowship. Now, on its own, yes, his fate could just remain a mystery and then, oh dear, things went badly and now he is dead (much sadder now, as I really love the Balin of this movie).
But The Balrog poses a bigger problem. He is not only encountered in Moria in one of the most iconic scenes in the movies, he is also explicitly mentioned by Saruman and clearly known to Gandalf. . ."Moria. You fear to go into those mines. . . . You know what awoke in The Darkness of Khazad-Dum. . ." Now if Moria was entirely unmentioned in The Hobbit films, well okay. But now they HAVE mentioned it, and very clearly shown it. The East Gate is very distinctive, and we see Azog being carried in with a great orange fireglow behind him.
So now, for audiences viewing from back to front, the known quantity of The Balrog immediately comes to mind. And for audiences viewing it in proper order, if no further commentary or explanation is given, then when Saruman starts talking about this Demon who has long dwelled in Moria, the viewers are inclined to ask "what the hell is talking about? Where the hell did that villain come from? I never heard of him before in connection to Moria, and they featured Moria for five whole damned minutes in the first Hobbit movie (and it may get more featuring yet, if Azog is further explained etc.). In that light, it becomes a continuity problem. Mentioning Moria in these films with no implication of The Balrog, and then having him feature as the dominant Baddie of Moria in the "subsequent" films AND portrayed, not as some menace who just moved in (which would be HORRIBLE revisionism anyway, and would entirely leave aside the epic horror tale of how Khazad-Dum ended up abandoned by Durin's people in the first place) but as part of the ancient legend and horror of the place, looks sloppy, as though he were sandwhiched in at the last minute just to provide a Baddie Boss level challenge for Gandalf.
By at least clearly alluding to him they give greater depth and authenticity to the larger tale of this series of movies. The movie isn't about Balin's journey to the mountain and back again. It's also not cinematic to end the film that way, unless your idea of linking the films together is to do a cliffhanger that doesn't get explained until 2/3's of the way through FOTR?
The timeline is always vague in these movies, but even so, (book) Balin doesn't go back to Moria for some years. He's got to rebuild the dwarf kingdom in Erebor first and help Dain.
I understand you're interested in Balin and his fate, but I don't see this happening.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Subject
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Time
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question about the Moria flashback
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ghost_matt
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Jan 11 2013, 12:37pm
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Check out - Awakening and third age
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imin
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Jan 11 2013, 12:50pm
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Film vs. book
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TFP
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Jan 11 2013, 1:27pm
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Dain saw the Balrog
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 1:30pm
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This never would have worked in the movie
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Kassandros
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Jan 11 2013, 3:05pm
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It was absurd
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 3:34pm
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Poor Balin!
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DanielLB
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Jan 11 2013, 3:41pm
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I'm never going to see the discovery of Balins tomb in FOTR the same again
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Azog
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Jan 12 2013, 8:23pm
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Agreed.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 9:01pm
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valiant? foolish?
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TFP
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Jan 11 2013, 4:07pm
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I'll add to that.
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Macfeast
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Jan 11 2013, 4:53pm
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Exactly. Exactly. And, as I say in another post, I think it possible that the defeat of Smaug, a victory beyond rational hope
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 3:18am
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I can see this confusing movie goers
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 4:27pm
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Movie goers die fast. Balin is Balin. And the Balrog is missing.
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xxxyyy
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Jan 11 2013, 4:48pm
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Gandalf doesn't know there's a Balrog
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 6:25pm
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Does anyone know how many went with Balin when he went back?
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 6:36pm
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The known Dwarves that went with him are:
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DanielLB
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Jan 11 2013, 6:42pm
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Thanks--I wondered about that.
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 6:59pm
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I like that... but what about movie Gandalf?
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xxxyyy
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Jan 11 2013, 10:44pm
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That isn't true in the films. In the movie timeline he DEFINITELY knows there is a Balrog.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 3:14am
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On this much, at least, I think you and I entirely agree
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 12:47am
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Are we thinking...
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Rostron2
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Jan 11 2013, 5:01pm
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I think there is every chance...
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TheBladeGlowsBlue
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Jan 11 2013, 11:44pm
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But why are we going back to Moria with Balin?
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Rostron2
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Jan 11 2013, 11:50pm
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because...
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TheBladeGlowsBlue
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Jan 12 2013, 5:47am
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And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 6:42am
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Because Moria has been brought into the films. At least, that is my rationale for
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 1:08am
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I don't think we know how bound to a solid walking form Balrog's were.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 12:55am
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