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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jan 12 2013, 6:42am


Views: 176
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And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin speaking of the desire to reclaim Moria, Gandalf with the same misgivings he shows Gimli, reminding Balin (or at least advising him) concerning Durin's Bane, the Terror that emptied Moria and slew the fabled Durin (reincarnate as he was). We can have Balin dissent etc., perhaps, depending on how Peter and company wish to play it. . . but it takes care of at least two things:

A) making it clear to audiences that the Balrog was a matter of consideration, or at least a matter of dread legend not mysteriously forgotten, even in the timeline of these movies, so when he appears in lore and in person in Fellowship, it does not look like a last minute contrivance of that film nor of that story (seemingly springing up out of nowhere, in a place we saw in The Hobbit movies and heard about, but never with any mention of him at all), but actually flows in and fits with the rumours and legends of dread that we "recall" being mentioned about the place in the "earlier" parts of the story.

B) Without showing Balin's fate, it foreshadows that it is perhaps not the best idea for him to try to return, and that terrible evil and dire fate might await him and all who accompany him there (Oin and Ori at the least, of this group, with Ori having been seen in Fellowship clutching the book). When Sir Ian intones in Fellowship "He is dead then. It's as I feared," it will ring with fuller authenticity. The Audience will remember that he did indeed fear such a thing, and tried to warn Balin off. And the chief reason for his fear will be consistent between the two trilogies, rather than an inexplicable non-sequiter. A Balrog is just NOT the sort of being you overlook, if you are aware of it, as The Wise are in the film.

Also, as I explained in another thread. . . knowing of The Balrog's presence, as Gandalf and Saruman at the least do in the Movie narrative, it would be beyond improbable for Gandalf to be concerned about a possible union between Sauron and Smaug, and not concerned about a possible union between the Sauron and the other Melkor The Morgoth serving, High-Elf slaughtering, enslaving and tormenting, sorcerously skilled and potent Maia Demon dwelling in the (orc and troll infested, by Sauron's will) ruined Mountain Kingdom just to the North-West of Lothlorien. Lorien indeed being pincered between the realms of the two "Demon Thanes" of Melkor The Morgoth (as The Lay of Luthien names them). These two former lieutenants of Melkor are a much more obvious and natural union than Sauron and the Dragon, with more common and shared history, from the Earth's shaping forward, and with more common hatreds. And if any Dark Power in Middle-Earth aside from Sauron would have been capable of breaching Galadriel's fences, it would have been the Demon in Moria, far more ancient and far more steeped in evil power and knowledge than The Witch-King of Angmar (if Legolas' words were not enough, Tolkien makes clear in other notes that the Balrog would have been the most powerful, known force of Evil remaining in Middle-Earth aside from Sauron himself). In any argument to be made about striking Sauron prior to him being able to gather the worlds disparate, Great Evils to his allegiance, to have knowledge of such a being dwelling so near to both Sauron and the chief objects of his malice, and NOT mention it would be negligent.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
question about the Moria flashback ghost_matt Send a private message to ghost_matt Jan 11 2013, 12:37pm
    Check out - Awakening and third age imin Send a private message to imin Jan 11 2013, 12:50pm
    Film vs. book TFP Send a private message to TFP Jan 11 2013, 1:27pm
    Dain saw the Balrog stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Jan 11 2013, 1:30pm
        This never would have worked in the movie Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Jan 11 2013, 3:05pm
            It was absurd stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Jan 11 2013, 3:34pm
                Poor Balin! DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jan 11 2013, 3:41pm
                    I'm never going to see the discovery of Balins tomb in FOTR the same again Azog Send a private message to Azog Jan 12 2013, 8:23pm
                        Agreed. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 12 2013, 9:01pm
                valiant? foolish? TFP Send a private message to TFP Jan 11 2013, 4:07pm
                    I'll add to that. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Jan 11 2013, 4:53pm
                Exactly. Exactly. And, as I say in another post, I think it possible that the defeat of Smaug, a victory beyond rational hope AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 12 2013, 3:18am
            I can see this confusing movie goers Kimtc Send a private message to Kimtc Jan 11 2013, 4:27pm
                Movie goers die fast. Balin is Balin. And the Balrog is missing. xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Jan 11 2013, 4:48pm
                    Gandalf doesn't know there's a Balrog stoutfiles Send a private message to stoutfiles Jan 11 2013, 6:25pm
                        Does anyone know how many went with Balin when he went back? Kimtc Send a private message to Kimtc Jan 11 2013, 6:36pm
                            The known Dwarves that went with him are: DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jan 11 2013, 6:42pm
                                Thanks--I wondered about that. Kimtc Send a private message to Kimtc Jan 11 2013, 6:59pm
                        I like that... but what about movie Gandalf? xxxyyy Send a private message to xxxyyy Jan 11 2013, 10:44pm
                        That isn't true in the films. In the movie timeline he DEFINITELY knows there is a Balrog. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 12 2013, 3:14am
                    On this much, at least, I think you and I entirely agree AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 13 2013, 12:47am
    Are we thinking... Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jan 11 2013, 5:01pm
        I think there is every chance... TheBladeGlowsBlue Send a private message to TheBladeGlowsBlue Jan 11 2013, 11:44pm
            But why are we going back to Moria with Balin? Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jan 11 2013, 11:50pm
                because... TheBladeGlowsBlue Send a private message to TheBladeGlowsBlue Jan 12 2013, 5:47am
                    And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 12 2013, 6:42am
                Because Moria has been brought into the films. At least, that is my rationale for AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 13 2013, 1:08am
        I don't think we know how bound to a solid walking form Balrog's were. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jan 13 2013, 12:55am

 
 
 

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