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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Jan 12 2013, 6:42am
Views: 357
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And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Balin speaking of the desire to reclaim Moria, Gandalf with the same misgivings he shows Gimli, reminding Balin (or at least advising him) concerning Durin's Bane, the Terror that emptied Moria and slew the fabled Durin (reincarnate as he was). We can have Balin dissent etc., perhaps, depending on how Peter and company wish to play it. . . but it takes care of at least two things:
A) making it clear to audiences that the Balrog was a matter of consideration, or at least a matter of dread legend not mysteriously forgotten, even in the timeline of these movies, so when he appears in lore and in person in Fellowship, it does not look like a last minute contrivance of that film nor of that story (seemingly springing up out of nowhere, in a place we saw in The Hobbit movies and heard about, but never with any mention of him at all), but actually flows in and fits with the rumours and legends of dread that we "recall" being mentioned about the place in the "earlier" parts of the story.
B) Without showing Balin's fate, it foreshadows that it is perhaps not the best idea for him to try to return, and that terrible evil and dire fate might await him and all who accompany him there (Oin and Ori at the least, of this group, with Ori having been seen in Fellowship clutching the book). When Sir Ian intones in Fellowship "He is dead then. It's as I feared," it will ring with fuller authenticity. The Audience will remember that he did indeed fear such a thing, and tried to warn Balin off. And the chief reason for his fear will be consistent between the two trilogies, rather than an inexplicable non-sequiter. A Balrog is just NOT the sort of being you overlook, if you are aware of it, as The Wise are in the film.
Also, as I explained in another thread. . . knowing of The Balrog's presence, as Gandalf and Saruman at the least do in the Movie narrative, it would be beyond improbable for Gandalf to be concerned about a possible union between Sauron and Smaug, and not concerned about a possible union between the Sauron and the other Melkor The Morgoth serving, High-Elf slaughtering, enslaving and tormenting, sorcerously skilled and potent Maia Demon dwelling in the (orc and troll infested, by Sauron's will) ruined Mountain Kingdom just to the North-West of Lothlorien. Lorien indeed being pincered between the realms of the two "Demon Thanes" of Melkor The Morgoth (as The Lay of Luthien names them). These two former lieutenants of Melkor are a much more obvious and natural union than Sauron and the Dragon, with more common and shared history, from the Earth's shaping forward, and with more common hatreds. And if any Dark Power in Middle-Earth aside from Sauron would have been capable of breaching Galadriel's fences, it would have been the Demon in Moria, far more ancient and far more steeped in evil power and knowledge than The Witch-King of Angmar (if Legolas' words were not enough, Tolkien makes clear in other notes that the Balrog would have been the most powerful, known force of Evil remaining in Middle-Earth aside from Sauron himself). In any argument to be made about striking Sauron prior to him being able to gather the worlds disparate, Great Evils to his allegiance, to have knowledge of such a being dwelling so near to both Sauron and the chief objects of his malice, and NOT mention it would be negligent.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Time
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question about the Moria flashback
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ghost_matt
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Jan 11 2013, 12:37pm
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Check out - Awakening and third age
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imin
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Jan 11 2013, 12:50pm
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Film vs. book
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TFP
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Jan 11 2013, 1:27pm
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Dain saw the Balrog
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 1:30pm
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This never would have worked in the movie
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Kassandros
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Jan 11 2013, 3:05pm
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It was absurd
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 3:34pm
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Poor Balin!
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DanielLB
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Jan 11 2013, 3:41pm
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I'm never going to see the discovery of Balins tomb in FOTR the same again
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Azog
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Jan 12 2013, 8:23pm
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Agreed.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 9:01pm
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valiant? foolish?
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TFP
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Jan 11 2013, 4:07pm
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I'll add to that.
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Macfeast
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Jan 11 2013, 4:53pm
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Exactly. Exactly. And, as I say in another post, I think it possible that the defeat of Smaug, a victory beyond rational hope
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 3:18am
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I can see this confusing movie goers
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 4:27pm
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Movie goers die fast. Balin is Balin. And the Balrog is missing.
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xxxyyy
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Jan 11 2013, 4:48pm
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Gandalf doesn't know there's a Balrog
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stoutfiles
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Jan 11 2013, 6:25pm
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Does anyone know how many went with Balin when he went back?
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 6:36pm
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The known Dwarves that went with him are:
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DanielLB
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Jan 11 2013, 6:42pm
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Thanks--I wondered about that.
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Kimtc
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Jan 11 2013, 6:59pm
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I like that... but what about movie Gandalf?
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xxxyyy
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Jan 11 2013, 10:44pm
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That isn't true in the films. In the movie timeline he DEFINITELY knows there is a Balrog.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 3:14am
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On this much, at least, I think you and I entirely agree
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 12:47am
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Are we thinking...
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Rostron2
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Jan 11 2013, 5:01pm
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I think there is every chance...
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TheBladeGlowsBlue
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Jan 11 2013, 11:44pm
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But why are we going back to Moria with Balin?
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Rostron2
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Jan 11 2013, 11:50pm
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because...
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TheBladeGlowsBlue
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Jan 12 2013, 5:47am
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And, again, the best way to handle this, without a fast forward, is through hinting and looking back
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 12 2013, 6:42am
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Because Moria has been brought into the films. At least, that is my rationale for
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 1:08am
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I don't think we know how bound to a solid walking form Balrog's were.
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AinurOlorin
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Jan 13 2013, 12:55am
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