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squire
Half-elven
Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
Views: 1519
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It seems to me that in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, the songs of angels take place in a created world. After the fact, so to speak. That goes along with my feeling that, as forms that emphasizes rhythm and repetition, song and music are ideal for reflecting on and appreciating works of creation. God in Genesis creates the world with words, not verses: "Let there be Light!", etc. The angels are nowhere to be seen or heard at that point. But as you say, once Genesis has occurred and is to be remembered ever after with joy and awe, then music takes its rightful place as the best means for that, which is worship. Tolkien was not your average Catholic. As a student of language, literature, and mythology, he surely would have had more sources of knowledge about the Bible and its traditions of creation than what he heard at church services, even when he was relatively young and just writing the Ainulindale tradition for the first time (in 1919, when he was 28 - see BoLT I.2). And as has been pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, he was trying to write a polytheistic cosmology, with many "gods" and "goddesses", under the umbrella of a monotheistic theology which accorded with his own deepest beliefs. He wanted both, and in his literary imagination his Catholicism had to step aside to make room for pagan matters. He admitted that this led to interesting conflicts later on, in a charmingly modest phrase: "This is, of course, meant to provide beings of the same order of beauty, power, and majesty as the 'gods' of higher mythology, which can yet be accepted -- well, shall we say baldly, by a mind that believes in the Blessed Trinity." (JRRT, Letter 131, written ca. 1951)
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Ainulindale
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 3:38am
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Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG!
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Ardamírë
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Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
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Why not sing the Aunur?
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:22pm
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Tolkien seemed to have the same sentiments about evil
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 10:31pm
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Where it starts...
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:53pm
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Nice--thought to music to sound
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:30pm
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Ulmo
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:15pm
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Sorry, I wasn't clear
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 6:37pm
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Well, no...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 12:41am
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Regarding Ulmo
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Cyberia
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Jan 2 2013, 8:09am
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I actually don't see the similarity
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:19pm
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saying Eä
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:32pm
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Hark to those herald angels singing
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squire
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Jan 1 2013, 2:35pm
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Excellent point
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm
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Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse
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squire
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Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
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Excellent insight--many thanks! //
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 8:14pm
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Another sung creation- the Kalevala
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noWizardme
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Jan 3 2013, 4:54pm
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Creation is song
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The Gardener
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Jan 5 2013, 6:00am
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Where's Eve? Or Varda?
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CuriousG
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Jan 5 2013, 7:40am
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No women were mentioned by name
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 8:45pm
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Worship of Creation is song
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squire
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Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
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Should have read the brochure?
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noWizardme
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Jan 1 2013, 7:14pm
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It does strike me every time I read it
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:25pm
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If we read that passage, perhaps it is not so clear
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:02pm
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I wonder about Tulkas leaving
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:30am
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Modern myth from modern things
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Mim
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Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm
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Thanks--great points, especially
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:21pm
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myth and music (and Manwe)
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telain
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Jan 8 2013, 6:11pm
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I wonder if the creation myth of Arda was analogous to
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Plurmo
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Jan 2 2013, 3:26am
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He was not far off of reality either............
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 9:31pm
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Tolkien's Representation of the Trinity
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KingTurgon
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Jan 4 2013, 9:45pm
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Jesus is Jesus
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 10:12pm
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For JRRT the events of ME were prior to
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 11:18pm
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Gandalf, in some ways
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CuriousG
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Jan 4 2013, 11:32pm
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Allegories - Contrast to The Lord of the Rings?
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noWizardme
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Jan 5 2013, 9:03am
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Earlier post
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KingTurgon
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Jan 7 2013, 8:25pm
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Jesus
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 5:56pm
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Interesting idea- glad you posted it //
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 7:09pm
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I know this isn't really a religion thread, but...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 8:02pm
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Maybe "reluctant" isn't quite right,
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 8:41pm
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Ah that passage
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 11:20pm
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Everyone's welcome to join in
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 9:14pm
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Thank you, and my apologies to Ardamire
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:19pm
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Without wishing to curtail this discussion- what are our plans for the next chapter?
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 10:15pm
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We can take turns. Whoever wants to do the Valaquenta, just say so, and post when you'd like.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:28pm
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Didn't get my edit inserted in time. More info:
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:51pm
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I will take the Reading Room to Valaquenta, though I... do not know the way. :)
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noWizardme
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Jan 7 2013, 1:02pm
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A Beautiful Creation
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:24pm
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I looove this "chapter"
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Oiotári
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Jan 11 2013, 6:20am
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Good point about no one to sing to
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:28am
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Late for the party
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sador
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Jan 16 2013, 10:52am
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