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squire
Half-elven
Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
Views: 3168
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Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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But to keep at it, why couldn't hunter-gatherers, who sing (I'm guessing singing didn't come too long after people spoke), tell stories around the fire about the gods who sang individually? Such as, "The god Serpens sang to the stream, and snakes were born. The god Florian sang to the sky, and flowers were born." Or whatever. In a way, it seems odd that no one ever thought of music as a creative force before. Instead creation usually sounds like the work done by a craftsman.
Thinking about your question, I wonder if the answer isn't due to the fact that music is fundamentally about rhythm and repetition. It's quality is not originality in the sense that a spark or a new idea seem original to us. Music, both acoustical and verbal (as in poetry), is prized for its virtue in helping with accompaniment and in remembering. The later inventions of harmonies and polyphonies are what makes more sophisticated and modern forms of art-music seem "original" to us, but I question whether older and less sophisticated cultures perceived or performed their music in that spirit. You might say that the stories told around the campfire would have been sung, so as to be more easily remembered and kept unchanged, but the singers would never assume that the god-figures who created their universes were singing a song to execute the creation. Given the nature of music, that would imply that the universes were well-known and already occupying their usual cyclical places in space-time, which is the opposite of creation!
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Ainulindale
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 3:38am
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Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG!
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Ardamírë
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Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
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Why not sing the Aunur?
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:22pm
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Tolkien seemed to have the same sentiments about evil
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 10:31pm
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Where it starts...
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:53pm
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Nice--thought to music to sound
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:30pm
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Ulmo
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:15pm
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Sorry, I wasn't clear
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 6:37pm
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Well, no...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 12:41am
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Regarding Ulmo
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Cyberia
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Jan 2 2013, 8:09am
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I actually don't see the similarity
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:19pm
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saying Eä
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:32pm
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Hark to those herald angels singing
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squire
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Jan 1 2013, 2:35pm
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Excellent point
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm
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Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse
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squire
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Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
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Excellent insight--many thanks! //
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 8:14pm
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Another sung creation- the Kalevala
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noWizardme
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Jan 3 2013, 4:54pm
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Creation is song
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The Gardener
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Jan 5 2013, 6:00am
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Where's Eve? Or Varda?
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CuriousG
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Jan 5 2013, 7:40am
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No women were mentioned by name
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 8:45pm
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Worship of Creation is song
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squire
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Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
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Should have read the brochure?
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noWizardme
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Jan 1 2013, 7:14pm
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It does strike me every time I read it
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:25pm
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If we read that passage, perhaps it is not so clear
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:02pm
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I wonder about Tulkas leaving
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:30am
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Modern myth from modern things
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Mim
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Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm
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Thanks--great points, especially
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:21pm
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myth and music (and Manwe)
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telain
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Jan 8 2013, 6:11pm
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I wonder if the creation myth of Arda was analogous to
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Plurmo
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Jan 2 2013, 3:26am
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He was not far off of reality either............
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 9:31pm
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Tolkien's Representation of the Trinity
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KingTurgon
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Jan 4 2013, 9:45pm
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Jesus is Jesus
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 10:12pm
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For JRRT the events of ME were prior to
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 11:18pm
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Gandalf, in some ways
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CuriousG
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Jan 4 2013, 11:32pm
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Allegories - Contrast to The Lord of the Rings?
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noWizardme
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Jan 5 2013, 9:03am
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Earlier post
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KingTurgon
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Jan 7 2013, 8:25pm
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Jesus
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 5:56pm
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Interesting idea- glad you posted it //
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 7:09pm
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I know this isn't really a religion thread, but...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 8:02pm
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Maybe "reluctant" isn't quite right,
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 8:41pm
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Ah that passage
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 11:20pm
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Everyone's welcome to join in
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 9:14pm
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Thank you, and my apologies to Ardamire
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:19pm
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Without wishing to curtail this discussion- what are our plans for the next chapter?
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 10:15pm
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We can take turns. Whoever wants to do the Valaquenta, just say so, and post when you'd like.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:28pm
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Didn't get my edit inserted in time. More info:
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:51pm
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I will take the Reading Room to Valaquenta, though I... do not know the way. :)
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noWizardme
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Jan 7 2013, 1:02pm
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A Beautiful Creation
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:24pm
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I looove this "chapter"
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Oiotári
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Jan 11 2013, 6:20am
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Good point about no one to sing to
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:28am
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Late for the party
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sador
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Jan 16 2013, 10:52am
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