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Lissuin
Valinor
Jan 2 2013, 6:19am
Views: 635
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i, y, j, u and v in Dutch and English
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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This follows 2 threads on the threaded mode with acheron, Ethel Duath and Sir Dennis, so I hope it works here in flat mode for everybody. This conversation reminded me of Dutch, which I don't know much about except that the use of these letters has changed over time as well. I found this website http://rabbel.nl/crashcourse.html, and the section "Orthographic Anarchy" talks about it. It says that until 1100 Latin had dominated written language in the Netherlands, but then a vernacular Dutch used by educated people gradually replaced it through 1350.
The characters of the Latin alphabet served as phonetic examples. The medieval Latin alphabet, however, knew but 23 characters: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, V, X, Y and Z. It has to be said, however, that the K, Y and Z weren't used much in Latin. For this reason we don’t see the K, Y and Z characters in early Middle Dutch writing. The same goes for the J and W characters which couldn't be found in the original Latin alphabet. So, the characters J, K, W, Y and Z in early Middle Dutch writing had to be represented by other characters. Differentiation of the U and V –which couldn't’t be found in the Latin alphabet- also took place in a later period of Middle Dutch spelling. All this resulted in a large freedom of spelling. The same word could be written in several spellings. As the Latin and French of the English church and aristocracy was also replaced by a vernacular form of English while retaining those influences about that same time (if I recall Bryson's book correctly, it's been a while), this would have been a similar process, right?
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Subject
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User
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Time
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A Middle English Vocabulary Challenge -- Nowel Edition
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SirDennisC
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Dec 22 2012, 6:09am
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I'll give it a go ...
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DanielLB
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Dec 22 2012, 8:01am
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Tricky..
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geordie
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Dec 22 2012, 9:27am
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Aren't the nowels
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Ethel Duath
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Dec 22 2012, 7:45pm
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Speaking of "y"
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SirDennisC
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Jan 1 2013, 11:09pm
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Well, if "i" and "y" were interchangeable at some point
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Ethel Duath
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Jan 2 2013, 12:12am
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i, y, j, u and v in Dutch and English
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Lissuin
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Jan 2 2013, 6:19am
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I think it's a spelling difference
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acheron
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Jan 2 2013, 5:36pm
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Spelling anarchy could be fun
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 6:42pm
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Gawd, not this again
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:53pm
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Tough one this time!
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Morthoron
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Dec 23 2012, 1:05am
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A Nowel present - a quiz!
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dernwyn
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Dec 23 2012, 5:36am
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I'll give it a go.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Dec 23 2012, 6:25am
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About answers and bonus words :)
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SirDennisC
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Dec 23 2012, 8:40pm
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OK, here are my guesses.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
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Dec 23 2012, 9:28pm
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Even more?
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dernwyn
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Dec 24 2012, 7:11pm
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Such lines are what makes it an "alliterative poem"
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SirDennisC
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Dec 25 2012, 3:19am
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bonus words
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Lissuin
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Dec 25 2012, 3:03am
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Are two guesses allowed?
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Lissuin
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Dec 25 2012, 2:40am
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Did you see the second list Liss?
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SirDennisC
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Dec 25 2012, 3:03am
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How do you like my line party costume?
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Lissuin
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Dec 25 2012, 3:08am
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Great answer! ... and ... wow. O.O //
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SirDennisC
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Dec 25 2012, 3:23am
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Answers -- don't peek if you still want to play.
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SirDennisC
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Dec 25 2012, 5:16pm
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Lots of fun, SirDennisC!
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Ardamírë
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Dec 26 2012, 11:25pm
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Bonus list answers -- don't peek if you still want to play!
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SirDennisC
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Dec 25 2012, 5:46pm
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j wasn't a letter in Middle English
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acheron
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Dec 30 2012, 3:49pm
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Further on the mysterious "ientyle"
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SirDennisC
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Dec 31 2012, 10:27pm
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"childgered"?
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dernwyn
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Jan 1 2013, 1:34pm
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Great question -- now where is Phibbus?
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SirDennisC
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Jan 1 2013, 8:38pm
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Not likely, SirD.
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Lissuin
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Jan 1 2013, 8:55pm
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Often said of Tolkien in the Reading Room -
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SirDennisC
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Jan 1 2013, 10:36pm
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