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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Further on the mysterious "ientyle"

SirDennisC
Half-elven


Dec 31 2012, 10:27pm


Views: 140
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Further on the mysterious "ientyle" [In reply to] Can't Post

First, thank you for the historical information Acheron...

In a note appearing just before the text proper of Sir Gawain -- least ways in my 1963 edition -- Tolkien has this to say:

"The spelling of the manuscript is reproduced, except for corrections of scribal errors... The long i of the manuscript is printed as j except in Iwis and the pronoun I."

And it is true; consider line 86 (line 85 included for context):

85 "Bot Arthure wolde not ete til al were serued,
He watz so joly of his joyfnes, and sumquat childgered:"

Incidentally this is an Arthur trope -- that he wouldn't eat the Christmas feast until everyone was served, and then only if some adventure presented itself at his halls (in this instance, enter The Green Knight).

It is also true that Tolkien's glossary doesn't have a "J" section, in spite of his swapping "i" for "j" where he deemed it appropriate.

Finally, ientyle appears as gentyle elsewhere in the text and in separate entries in the glossary, though they are the same word. So we might have stumbled here, upon an exception to Tolkien's editing strategy. Or perhaps soft g could sometimes be written as i, i.e. as it sounds?Laugh

Oh, one more thing... from the text above, I just love "sumquat" for "somewhat." Qu standing in for wh appears elsewhere in the poem.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Dec 31 2012, 10:30pm)

Subject User Time
A Middle English Vocabulary Challenge -- Nowel Edition SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 22 2012, 6:09am
    I'll give it a go ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Dec 22 2012, 8:01am
    Tricky.. geordie Send a private message to geordie Dec 22 2012, 9:27am
    Aren't the nowels Ethel Duath Send a private message to Ethel Duath Dec 22 2012, 7:45pm
        Speaking of "y" SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Jan 1 2013, 11:09pm
            Well, if "i" and "y" were interchangeable at some point Ethel Duath Send a private message to Ethel Duath Jan 2 2013, 12:12am
                i, y, j, u and v in Dutch and English Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Jan 2 2013, 6:19am
                I think it's a spelling difference acheron Send a private message to acheron Jan 2 2013, 5:36pm
                    Spelling anarchy could be fun CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jan 2 2013, 6:42pm
    Gawd, not this again Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:53pm
    Tough one this time! Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Dec 23 2012, 1:05am
    A Nowel present - a quiz! dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Dec 23 2012, 5:36am
    I'll give it a go. Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Dec 23 2012, 6:25am
        About answers and bonus words :) SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 23 2012, 8:40pm
            OK, here are my guesses. Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Dec 23 2012, 9:28pm
            Even more? dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Dec 24 2012, 7:11pm
                Such lines are what makes it an "alliterative poem" SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 25 2012, 3:19am
            bonus words Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Dec 25 2012, 3:03am
    Are two guesses allowed? Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Dec 25 2012, 2:40am
        Did you see the second list Liss? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 25 2012, 3:03am
            How do you like my line party costume? Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Dec 25 2012, 3:08am
                Great answer! ... and ... wow. O.O // SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 25 2012, 3:23am
    Answers -- don't peek if you still want to play. SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 25 2012, 5:16pm
        Lots of fun, SirDennisC! Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 26 2012, 11:25pm
    Bonus list answers -- don't peek if you still want to play! SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 25 2012, 5:46pm
        j wasn't a letter in Middle English acheron Send a private message to acheron Dec 30 2012, 3:49pm
            Further on the mysterious "ientyle" SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 31 2012, 10:27pm
                "childgered"? dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Jan 1 2013, 1:34pm
                    Great question -- now where is Phibbus? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Jan 1 2013, 8:38pm
                        Not likely, SirD. Lissuin Send a private message to Lissuin Jan 1 2013, 8:55pm
                            Often said of Tolkien in the Reading Room - SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Jan 1 2013, 10:36pm

 
 
 

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