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Ardamírë
Valinor
Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
Views: 3441
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Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG!
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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First reaction? Well, I read it first when I was 10 or 11. Skipped over Ainulindale and Valaquenta, and was still overwhelmed by chapter one. I don't think I returned for a couple of years. "There was Eru, the One,..." Given Tolkien's Catholic background, it's not at all surprising to find that he begins his creation account in the same manner as Genesis by claiming only one god. Compare Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." (emphasis mine). Not "gods" or "a god" but "God" - as in the only one. The Music of the Ainur. I actually don't think it's that big of a departure to put a creation story to song. Again, Genesis asserts that God spoke the world into existence. It's not that much of a stretch to think of putting it to music or (more accurately) of being music. It almost conjures up the idea of a musical for me - a dramatic story telling. C.S. Lewis also has Aslan sing Narnia into creation in The Chronicles of Narnia, though I couldn't say if he got the idea from Tolkien or not. I think Eru didn't sing the Ainur into existence to show that they are separate from Ea. He thinks them into existence and then they assist (or at least, He uses them) in the creation of the world. I don't have my copy on hand, and it's been a while since I read it, but I have a thought. Eru's creation goes from thought to sound (the music) to actual spoken word Ea. I think he doesn't say Ea until the end, right? If not, then that train of thought is void
Why do you suppose Tolkien chose Manwe as the king of the world over Ulmo? Was he bowing to the influence of Norse and Greek myths that had the thunder/sky god as First God? That might be part of it. But also, Ulmo cannot be head Vala or else he couldn't secretly support the Noldor in Beleriand against the Valar's will. Remember he uses the streams and waters of Beleriand to communicate with the exiles. And he also comes to Tuor against the will of the Valar. Recall what he says to Tuor at Nevrast (in Unfinished Tales):
Therefore, though in the days of this darkness I seem to oppose the will of my brethren, the Lords of the West, that is my part among them, to which I was ap-pointed ere the making of the World. And later:
‘Go now,’ said Ulmo, ‘lest the Sea devour thee! For Ossë obeys the will of Mandos, and he is wroth, being a servant of the Doom.’ Well, that's all for now. I'll try to read Ainulindale tomorrow and add more thoughts. Thanks again! It was quite fun
There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too. And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).
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Subject
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User
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Time
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The Silmarillion discussion: Ainulindale
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 3:38am
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Thanks for kicking this off, CuriousG!
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Ardamírë
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Dec 31 2012, 4:14am
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Why not sing the Aunur?
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:22pm
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Tolkien seemed to have the same sentiments about evil
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CuriousG
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Dec 31 2012, 10:31pm
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Where it starts...
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noWizardme
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Dec 31 2012, 10:53pm
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Nice--thought to music to sound
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:30pm
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Ulmo
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:15pm
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Sorry, I wasn't clear
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 6:37pm
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Well, no...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 12:41am
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Regarding Ulmo
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Cyberia
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Jan 2 2013, 8:09am
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I actually don't see the similarity
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Ardamírë
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Jan 2 2013, 5:19pm
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saying Eä
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:32pm
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Hark to those herald angels singing
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squire
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Jan 1 2013, 2:35pm
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Excellent point
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 10:04pm
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Stop me if you've heard this one, O Muse
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squire
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Jan 2 2013, 7:19pm
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Excellent insight--many thanks! //
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CuriousG
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Jan 2 2013, 8:14pm
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Another sung creation- the Kalevala
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noWizardme
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Jan 3 2013, 4:54pm
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Creation is song
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The Gardener
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Jan 5 2013, 6:00am
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Where's Eve? Or Varda?
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CuriousG
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Jan 5 2013, 7:40am
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No women were mentioned by name
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 8:45pm
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Worship of Creation is song
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squire
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Jan 5 2013, 2:49pm
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Should have read the brochure?
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noWizardme
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Jan 1 2013, 7:14pm
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It does strike me every time I read it
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:25pm
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If we read that passage, perhaps it is not so clear
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Oiotári
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Jan 12 2013, 9:02pm
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I wonder about Tulkas leaving
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:30am
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Modern myth from modern things
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Mim
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Jan 1 2013, 7:42pm
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Thanks--great points, especially
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CuriousG
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Jan 1 2013, 9:21pm
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myth and music (and Manwe)
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telain
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Jan 8 2013, 6:11pm
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I wonder if the creation myth of Arda was analogous to
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Plurmo
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Jan 2 2013, 3:26am
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He was not far off of reality either............
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 9:31pm
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Tolkien's Representation of the Trinity
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KingTurgon
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Jan 4 2013, 9:45pm
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Jesus is Jesus
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Ardamírë
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Jan 4 2013, 10:12pm
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For JRRT the events of ME were prior to
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Eruonen
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Jan 4 2013, 11:18pm
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Gandalf, in some ways
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CuriousG
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Jan 4 2013, 11:32pm
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Allegories - Contrast to The Lord of the Rings?
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noWizardme
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Jan 5 2013, 9:03am
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Earlier post
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KingTurgon
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Jan 7 2013, 8:25pm
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Jesus
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 5:56pm
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Interesting idea- glad you posted it //
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 7:09pm
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I know this isn't really a religion thread, but...
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 8:02pm
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Maybe "reluctant" isn't quite right,
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 8:41pm
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Ah that passage
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Ardamírë
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Jan 6 2013, 11:20pm
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Everyone's welcome to join in
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 9:14pm
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Thank you, and my apologies to Ardamire
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:19pm
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Without wishing to curtail this discussion- what are our plans for the next chapter?
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noWizardme
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Jan 6 2013, 10:15pm
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We can take turns. Whoever wants to do the Valaquenta, just say so, and post when you'd like.//
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:28pm
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Didn't get my edit inserted in time. More info:
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CuriousG
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Jan 6 2013, 10:51pm
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I will take the Reading Room to Valaquenta, though I... do not know the way. :)
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noWizardme
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Jan 7 2013, 1:02pm
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A Beautiful Creation
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Aragalen the Green
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Jan 6 2013, 10:24pm
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I looove this "chapter"
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Oiotári
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Jan 11 2013, 6:20am
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Good point about no one to sing to
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CuriousG
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Jan 16 2013, 3:28am
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Late for the party
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sador
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Jan 16 2013, 10:52am
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