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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Dec 31 2012, 12:23am
Views: 268
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The forums are moving so fast that hardly anyone will see this post.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Perhaps not even you, Altaira! That's what I get for being busy for 24 hours. Still, since you were kind enough to chime in:
Then proclaim it was the worst concert of the year, not that it was the worst piece of music written in the year. I think we're all taking this list a bit too seriously. Generally, critics' year-end "best" and "worst" lists are throwaway pieces created after the hard work of actual reviewing is done, or they exist as a way of making some general points about the state of cinema, without really being about the specific films in question. In this case, I would say that the critic is emphasizing the problems with 48fps because one of the most prominent filmmakers has declared that this is the future (while, if I recall correctly, hinting that films of the past were ugly), so the critic saw this as a significant point to address in a year-end summary. (There is an argument to be made that critics shouldn't make ten top ten lists at all. I'll follow up on that in a new thread at some point.)
Of course critics should comment on 48fps, as several people have already noted. It's difficult for some critics to separate one from the other as we've seen in other reviews. It just diminishes any critic's credibility, and/or exposes a bias, if they bash a composition itself because of the concert hall it was played in. I disagree. If the music critic thinks a new work sounds bad, and she's only been able to hear it in a poor setting, or performed by a weak orchestra, she can't commisison a new performance by a different ensemble in a different building! She has to make the best judgment based on what she's heard. It works in both directions, by the way: the acoustics may cause a bad work to sound better than it "really" is. (Similarly, it happens in theatre that a new play is acclaimed because of brilliant direction and when seen in a revival is found wanting -- as a play, not (just) as a production.) Think about this: if a critic praised The Hobbit largely because of the 48fps, would most people here be complaining that the critic wasn't giving the film itself due consideration? Rather than adding a separate post, I'll also respond here to sauget.diblosio:
I think the Mozart comparison applies more to The Hobbit as it's an independent work, like an album or a written piece of music. It exists as a work separate from format or venue. Of course when you go see a band or orchestra live that particular performance is affected by venue, but to review that band's *album* or that orchestra's music's *composer* on the basis of that particular performance or venue would be absurd. A movie is not a performance, it's a pre-existing work like a symphony or painting and should be judged on those pre-existing elements alone. No, The Hobbit movie is more analogous to a new composition than to a known work like a Mozart symphony. The critic is encountering the work and its performance at the same time. Now, is it more apt to compare The Hobbit film to a recording of a new concerto than to a performance of a new concerto? Sure. But again, I don't believe the studio gave critics the opportunity to see the film a second time in a different time before the film opened to the public -- which is when their reviews had to appear.
And if you're a professional critic and you knew that this film was showing in both traditional 24fps and a controversial new 48fps, and you hated 48fps, i think it's your professional duty to see it in the other format as well. Especially if you're a nationally known critic, and especially with such a high-profile film. Nobody "hated 48fps" before seeing The Hobbit, because no one had seen 48fps projection before. And as this particular critic had also noted other reasons for disliking the film, it's completely understandable that he ddn't feel he needed to see it again just to try a different format. And I utterly reject the idea that one film should be given more attention than another because of its supposed "profile", i.e., because it cost a lot of money. That's just snobbery.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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CNN: The Hobbit worst movie of 2012
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demnation
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Dec 29 2012, 12:17am
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That headline made me LOL //
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 12:19am
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Why shouldn't a critic's opinion of a movie be affected by its appearance?
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 12:29am
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you would think
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BeornBerserker
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Dec 29 2012, 12:33am
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Critics are under no obligation to see a film twice.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 1:03am
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Fair enough, but we shouldn't have to hear about it next year.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 1:11am
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They won't be doing any critic screenings at 48fps next year.
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Crunchable Birdses
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Dec 29 2012, 1:13am
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Not if you opted to pile onto the soup with the optional sauce labled "extremely hot"
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 1:13am
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"...as standard blockbusters go..."
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 2:15am
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Elizabeth. //
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Ardamírë
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Dec 29 2012, 2:32am
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Yeah, but The Hobbit is significantly lighter fare...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 2:37am
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Some of the marketing did highlight connections between LoTR and TH
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 2:55am
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Yet they tried to amp up the drama in Hobbit.
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Estel78
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Dec 29 2012, 5:52am
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The blame for failed expectations
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 2:50am
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It is indeed, but it is a problem critics supposedly have some obligation to take into consideration, and to avoid falling into.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 4:15am
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All the quieter charm of The Hobbit
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 5:02am
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Many critics explicitly stated that they felt the film was too drawn out in the Bag End sequence...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 5:04am
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In the prologue, maybe.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 5:42am
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I agree about the dwarves, but the critics certainly didn't.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 5:57am
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I think that tells you the big problem PJ had...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 2:20pm
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Personally, i think the film got most tedious
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 4:24pm
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Agreed about some of the action but not Azog
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 5:34pm
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Yeah, when it comes to Azog,
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 6:02pm
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Seriously?? Gothmog was HORRIBLE.
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morgul lord
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Dec 29 2012, 8:39pm
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I have no feeling on Gothmog one way or the other really,
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 10:05pm
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Azog
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 6:10pm
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Nope
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 6:04am
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"That was Thorin's style. He was an important dwarf."
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 7:24am
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Sorry, I clearly hit a nerve!
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 8:39am
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Well. . . they had a Wizard with them. Maybe one of the more subtle aspects of the magic
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 9:52am
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Except you can't really say "nope" to this.
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 5:55pm
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Oh, I agree those were some of the best moments. But, with a notable few exceptions
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 9:34am
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I find this to be the funny thing about the critics
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redgiraffe
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Jan 3 2013, 11:12am
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Yeah, couldn't disagree more.
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Tim
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Dec 29 2012, 5:36am
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the problem is...
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 5:48am
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I'm with ya
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 2:20pm
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Couldn't agree more
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imin
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Dec 29 2012, 11:59am
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To be fair
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 2:08pm
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I agree and disagree
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elostirion74
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Dec 30 2012, 2:43pm
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I suppose
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BeornBerserker
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Dec 29 2012, 1:41am
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But it is garbage to lambast a film based on a format that one did not have to see it in
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:39am
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So critics should not have seen the film in the new format touted by its director? //
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 12:51am
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I value a critic who can make a distinction between form and content.
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Bladerunner
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Dec 29 2012, 6:30am
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this is a fair point
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redgiraffe
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Dec 29 2012, 1:44am
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It's not a fair point.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 1:58am
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but
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redgiraffe
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Dec 29 2012, 4:02am
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WTF???
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:32am
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It is customary for critics to focus their "worst lists" on ambitious or notable films.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 1:08am
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And what of the likes of Breaking Dawn, and even Resident Evil?
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 1:15am
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Love your posts
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 2:13am
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Daaawwwww. *Blushing*
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 2:47am
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;)
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 5:44am
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If you read the review...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 12:15pm
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I think it really invalidates his opinion a lot
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Silranhir
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Dec 29 2012, 12:37pm
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Yeah he is probably the only one i actively go out of my way to listen to
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imin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:48pm
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Hmm...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 1:02pm
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Three movies
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Arannir
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Dec 29 2012, 1:43pm
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One film
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Silranhir
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Dec 29 2012, 1:54pm
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A two film adaptation would be the best balance
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 6:47pm
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Someone who puts Tarantinos latest copy & paste crap on his number 1 list
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Êleniel Tindome
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Dec 29 2012, 6:55pm
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Yet it was also a better film than Avengers, about which critic raved, giving a pass to
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 12:59am
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I felt Jackson invited the LotR comparison
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 1:29am
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It'e entirely possible...
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Chainsaw Charlie
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Dec 30 2012, 7:30pm
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LMAO! The critics REALLY hated HFR, didn't they...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 12:34am
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I find this amusing more than anything else.
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sharpened_graphite
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Dec 29 2012, 12:45am
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Worse than a Gerard Butler romcom?
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ryouko
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Dec 29 2012, 1:08am
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Oh, please!
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 1:44am
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The stupidest thing I have heard in 2012
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 2:10am
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It would interesting
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silneldor
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Dec 29 2012, 3:26am
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Seeking attention
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 6:42am
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Attention seeking
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dubulous
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Dec 29 2012, 9:45am
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Surely he should be reviewing the film
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DanielLB
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Dec 29 2012, 10:14am
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Classical music critics comment on the acoustics of orchestral halls all the time.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 10:33am
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I don't really think people are saying 48fps shouldn't be mentioned.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 2:47pm
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It should absolutely affect the review. It does in music.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 5:55pm
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Then proclaim it was the worst concert of the year
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Altaira
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Dec 29 2012, 6:22pm
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The forums are moving so fast that hardly anyone will see this post.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 31 2012, 12:23am
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Maybe i'm not expaining myself well enough...
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 7:40pm
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It's based on the following review
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 11:36am
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Such a sad thing
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 4:27pm
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ugh
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 4:53pm
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Ave Moria
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 5:52pm
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I don't think theres any need for that...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 7:20pm
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Nor is TH free from criticism either, or it shouldn't be. People are allowed to dislike it all they like, so to speak. //
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 7:35pm
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I wasnt claiming it should be...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 8:09pm
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Agreed on that last sentiment, but my interjection was due to that
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 11:31pm
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And I think that was the problem with some of the critics/reviews. They came with a cynical attitude
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 1:44am
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i went in with the opposite problem
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imin
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Dec 30 2012, 1:56am
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When you do, you may find much more that is good than action.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 2:01am
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Those are all the parts i liked the first time round
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imin
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Dec 30 2012, 2:34am
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I cannot complain too much about Goblin town, thanks to the magic and Humphries.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 6:26am
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I agree with you Corsair. //
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Elenorflower
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Dec 29 2012, 9:06pm
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Agreed
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 6:01pm
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Sure I had a similar experience
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 7:05pm
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I don't think it was greed from Jackson...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 7:39pm
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Agree about more drama in later chapters...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 12:40am
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A much harder call than FOTR for me...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 10:41am
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You wouldn't have to drop the Trolls, Beorn and the Eagles
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 1:03pm
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My points were more that...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 2:01pm
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Suggestions for themes
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 2:28pm
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The problem is I'd say...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 3:33pm
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Thorin
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arithmancer
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Dec 30 2012, 2:07pm
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I honestly don't see how they ever planned on making this two films.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 30 2012, 1:20pm
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Indeed it will
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 3:49pm
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Corsair??
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Ataahua
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Dec 29 2012, 11:23pm
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Ataahua
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 11:42pm
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:D
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Ataahua
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Dec 30 2012, 12:10am
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At least the commenters are giving the reviewer a run for his money. //
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Aragalen the Green
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Dec 29 2012, 4:42pm
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---> Personal comments have been edited out of this thread - it will be locked if they continue! //
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Altaira
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Dec 29 2012, 6:11pm
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This is typical CNN.
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Chainsaw Charlie
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Dec 29 2012, 8:17pm
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No critic ever talks about...
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Rostron2
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Dec 29 2012, 10:27pm
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Critics won't get fooled again?
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 7:10pm
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