|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
squire
Half-elven
Dec 30 2012, 1:24am
Views: 4665
Shortcut
|
I think you have an interesting thesis there, regarding the 19th century's daemonically-gifted leaders versus the 20th century's. But to get back to Tolkien, I would argue that the Ring is a device that represents the acme of personal ambition and self-centeredness: It represents pure power, the drive to dominate others, the idea (as Auden put it, I think) that the truly evil don't want others to follow them, they want others to be made to follow them against their own wills. Ideology has nothing to do with this exploration of the nature of power and the evil of compulsory action. I suspect that Tolkien would have been more interested in Hitler's or Stalin's (or Pol Pot's) "will to power" (a 19th century idea, courtesy of Nietzsche) than he would have been in those dictator's stated desires to achieve "ideological purity" in the nation state that they led. I agree with your analysis of the course of Gandalf's degradation by the Ring. But I would argue that that describes exactly what happened to Sauron as well, according to Tolkien's notes and writings. I don't see Gandalf having some "ideology" that Sauron didn't have. So I remain somewhat mystified by Tolkien's assertion that Gandalf's corruption would have been in some way "far worse" than Sauron's, as per my first post.
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
Elrond and the ring
|
Nerven
|
Dec 15 2012, 3:48pm
|
I find the text quite clear...
|
Otaku-sempai
|
Dec 15 2012, 3:55pm
|
"If so"
|
ElendilTheShort
|
Dec 15 2012, 6:29pm
|
Elrond
|
Nerven
|
Dec 15 2012, 7:12pm
|
I do not think
|
ElendilTheShort
|
Dec 15 2012, 11:30pm
|
Another
|
Nerven
|
Dec 16 2012, 9:59am
|
I think so
|
CuriousG
|
Dec 16 2012, 4:25pm
|
Very nice analysis
|
ltnjmy
|
Dec 17 2012, 5:25pm
|
Especially Elrond...
|
Nolofinwe
|
Dec 25 2012, 4:18pm
|
A moment of nostalgia
|
sador
|
Dec 25 2012, 9:32pm
|
That
|
Nerven
|
Dec 26 2012, 10:17am
|
Have often thought that Elrond is overlooked as a tragic figure
|
SilentLion
|
Dec 26 2012, 7:43pm
|
Were you responding to me?
|
sador
|
Dec 27 2012, 6:46am
|
Yes, I meant my post as a reply to yours
|
SilentLion
|
Dec 27 2012, 11:32pm
|
Gandalf's temptation by the Ring (or Frodo)
|
CuriousG
|
Dec 28 2012, 1:44am
|
I think in one of his Letters, Tolkien speculates that Gandalf
|
SilentLion
|
Dec 28 2012, 9:00pm
|
Like Pol Pot and bad bunnies
|
CuriousG
|
Dec 28 2012, 9:20pm
|
Good examples!
|
SilentLion
|
Dec 28 2012, 10:10pm
|
Wait a second
|
squire
|
Dec 28 2012, 11:02pm
|
The point is taken that we need to be careful about
|
SilentLion
|
Dec 30 2012, 12:38am
|
Very interesting thoughts
|
squire
|
Dec 30 2012, 1:24am
|
One wonders how Gandalf could be worse
|
ElendilTheShort
|
Dec 30 2012, 4:15am
|
Squire
|
ElendilTheShort
|
Dec 30 2012, 4:09am
|
Just joking, but
|
CuriousG
|
Dec 28 2012, 1:30am
|
|
|
|