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burrahobbit
Rohan
Dec 29 2012, 6:47pm
Views: 440
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A two film adaptation would be the best balance
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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A one film adaptation would be possible, but severe. To avoid the feeling where each scene is rushed that you mention, you have to cut scenes in their entirety. So we'd probably have to relegate Beorn to the extended edition for example, which would be a real shame. Two films would likely be the best balance. For two films the question is where is the most suitable place to split the films. As the whole story is about Bilbo and his character development, it makes sense to look at the most significant scenes where Bilbo's character advances- Bag End- Bilbo decides to go on quest Riddles in the Dark- Bilbo is left alone, finds courage to go on, outwits Gollum. Earns dwarves' grudging respect. Mirkwood- Gandalf departs. Bilbo kills spider and rescues dwarves. Bilbo taking on leadership role in company. Barrel Escape- Bilbo leads escape, earns dwarves admiration and trust. Arrival at Lonely Mountain. At the doorstep- Bilbo helps find secret entrance. Smaug Riddling- whole quest depends on Bilbo's courage and skill. He finds dragon's weakpoint. Arkenstone- Bilbo steals stone, betrays dwarves based on his own moral beliefs. Thrown out of company by Thorin. Thorin's death- Bilbo earns the love of the dwarves on his own terms- child of the kindly west who values friendship above gold. Based on Bilbo's character arc, the most natural places to split the film are either after the Mirkwood spiders attack or after the Barrell escape. They are both key points in the story where Bilbo has shown his courage and has transformed his relationship with the dwarves. The Jackson adaptation doesn't make much sense in screenwriting terms. He's had to manufacture a new compressed character arc for Bilbo, which lacked the emotion of the original and involved rescuing Thorin from a new character Azog. And he's also had to greatly extend various action scenes (goblin tunnels, Rivendell arrival, eagle escape) when there's little real danger or drama in the story. These decisions are I think the source of the many bloat and bad-pacing criticisms that have affected the film.
We won't actually know until the end of the third film how much adding the third film has stretched the story. FotR gave a pretty good idea of the pacing and quality of the LotR film trilogy- i.e. both were fantastically good. Maybe AUJ is misleading for one reason or another, but I don't think it's unfair of audiences and critics to comment on what they see. Cinema is not like a tv series where you can have a slow episode and rescue the series next weekend. Audiences have spend $10 or more and three hours of their time to see a complete film. If they don't get one they may not show up next time.
Even you saying that the move to make three films 'to please the studio' is going against what we know to have happened as a fact. I said "to please the studio and keep the New Zealand film industry that Jackson loves going". At no point did I say the studio chose this, Jackson made the decision, I argue, to please the studio and boost the NZ film industry. Seems to me to fit very well with the facts we know.
(This post was edited by burrahobbit on Dec 29 2012, 6:49pm)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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CNN: The Hobbit worst movie of 2012
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demnation
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Dec 29 2012, 12:17am
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That headline made me LOL //
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 12:19am
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Why shouldn't a critic's opinion of a movie be affected by its appearance?
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 12:29am
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you would think
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BeornBerserker
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Dec 29 2012, 12:33am
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Critics are under no obligation to see a film twice.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 1:03am
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Fair enough, but we shouldn't have to hear about it next year.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 1:11am
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They won't be doing any critic screenings at 48fps next year.
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Crunchable Birdses
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Dec 29 2012, 1:13am
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Not if you opted to pile onto the soup with the optional sauce labled "extremely hot"
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 1:13am
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"...as standard blockbusters go..."
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 2:15am
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Elizabeth. //
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Ardamírë
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Dec 29 2012, 2:32am
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Yeah, but The Hobbit is significantly lighter fare...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 2:37am
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Some of the marketing did highlight connections between LoTR and TH
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 2:55am
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Yet they tried to amp up the drama in Hobbit.
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Estel78
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Dec 29 2012, 5:52am
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The blame for failed expectations
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Escapist
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Dec 29 2012, 2:50am
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It is indeed, but it is a problem critics supposedly have some obligation to take into consideration, and to avoid falling into.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 4:15am
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All the quieter charm of The Hobbit
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 5:02am
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Many critics explicitly stated that they felt the film was too drawn out in the Bag End sequence...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 5:04am
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In the prologue, maybe.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 5:42am
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I agree about the dwarves, but the critics certainly didn't.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 5:57am
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I think that tells you the big problem PJ had...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 2:20pm
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Personally, i think the film got most tedious
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 4:24pm
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Agreed about some of the action but not Azog
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 5:34pm
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Yeah, when it comes to Azog,
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 6:02pm
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Seriously?? Gothmog was HORRIBLE.
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morgul lord
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Dec 29 2012, 8:39pm
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I have no feeling on Gothmog one way or the other really,
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 10:05pm
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Azog
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 6:10pm
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Nope
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 6:04am
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"That was Thorin's style. He was an important dwarf."
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 7:24am
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Sorry, I clearly hit a nerve!
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Elizabeth
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Dec 29 2012, 8:39am
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Well. . . they had a Wizard with them. Maybe one of the more subtle aspects of the magic
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 9:52am
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Except you can't really say "nope" to this.
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 5:55pm
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Oh, I agree those were some of the best moments. But, with a notable few exceptions
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 9:34am
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I find this to be the funny thing about the critics
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redgiraffe
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Jan 3 2013, 11:12am
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Yeah, couldn't disagree more.
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Tim
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Dec 29 2012, 5:36am
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the problem is...
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 5:48am
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I'm with ya
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 2:20pm
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Couldn't agree more
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imin
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Dec 29 2012, 11:59am
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To be fair
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 2:08pm
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I agree and disagree
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elostirion74
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Dec 30 2012, 2:43pm
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I suppose
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BeornBerserker
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Dec 29 2012, 1:41am
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But it is garbage to lambast a film based on a format that one did not have to see it in
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:39am
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So critics should not have seen the film in the new format touted by its director? //
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 12:51am
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I value a critic who can make a distinction between form and content.
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Bladerunner
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Dec 29 2012, 6:30am
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this is a fair point
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redgiraffe
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Dec 29 2012, 1:44am
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It's not a fair point.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 1:58am
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but
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redgiraffe
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Dec 29 2012, 4:02am
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WTF???
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:32am
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It is customary for critics to focus their "worst lists" on ambitious or notable films.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 1:08am
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And what of the likes of Breaking Dawn, and even Resident Evil?
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 1:15am
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Love your posts
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 2:13am
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Daaawwwww. *Blushing*
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 29 2012, 2:47am
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;)
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 5:44am
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If you read the review...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 12:15pm
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I think it really invalidates his opinion a lot
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Silranhir
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Dec 29 2012, 12:37pm
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Yeah he is probably the only one i actively go out of my way to listen to
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imin
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Dec 29 2012, 12:48pm
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Hmm...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 1:02pm
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Three movies
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Arannir
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Dec 29 2012, 1:43pm
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One film
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Silranhir
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Dec 29 2012, 1:54pm
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A two film adaptation would be the best balance
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 6:47pm
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Someone who puts Tarantinos latest copy & paste crap on his number 1 list
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Êleniel Tindome
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Dec 29 2012, 6:55pm
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Yet it was also a better film than Avengers, about which critic raved, giving a pass to
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 12:59am
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I felt Jackson invited the LotR comparison
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 1:29am
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It'e entirely possible...
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Chainsaw Charlie
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Dec 30 2012, 7:30pm
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LMAO! The critics REALLY hated HFR, didn't they...
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Aragorn the Elfstone
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Dec 29 2012, 12:34am
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I find this amusing more than anything else.
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sharpened_graphite
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Dec 29 2012, 12:45am
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Worse than a Gerard Butler romcom?
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ryouko
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Dec 29 2012, 1:08am
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Oh, please!
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 1:44am
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The stupidest thing I have heard in 2012
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 2:10am
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It would interesting
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silneldor
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Dec 29 2012, 3:26am
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Seeking attention
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Elessar
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Dec 29 2012, 6:42am
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Attention seeking
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dubulous
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Dec 29 2012, 9:45am
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Surely he should be reviewing the film
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DanielLB
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Dec 29 2012, 10:14am
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Classical music critics comment on the acoustics of orchestral halls all the time.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 10:33am
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I don't really think people are saying 48fps shouldn't be mentioned.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 2:47pm
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It should absolutely affect the review. It does in music.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 29 2012, 5:55pm
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Then proclaim it was the worst concert of the year
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Altaira
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Dec 29 2012, 6:22pm
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The forums are moving so fast that hardly anyone will see this post.
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N.E. Brigand
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Dec 31 2012, 12:23am
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Maybe i'm not expaining myself well enough...
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 29 2012, 7:40pm
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It's based on the following review
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 11:36am
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Such a sad thing
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 4:27pm
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ugh
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Ave Moria
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Dec 29 2012, 4:53pm
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Ave Moria
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 5:52pm
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I don't think theres any need for that...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 7:20pm
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Nor is TH free from criticism either, or it shouldn't be. People are allowed to dislike it all they like, so to speak. //
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 7:35pm
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I wasnt claiming it should be...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 8:09pm
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Agreed on that last sentiment, but my interjection was due to that
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Captain Salt
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Dec 29 2012, 11:31pm
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And I think that was the problem with some of the critics/reviews. They came with a cynical attitude
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 1:44am
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i went in with the opposite problem
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imin
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Dec 30 2012, 1:56am
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When you do, you may find much more that is good than action.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 2:01am
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Those are all the parts i liked the first time round
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imin
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Dec 30 2012, 2:34am
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I cannot complain too much about Goblin town, thanks to the magic and Humphries.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 30 2012, 6:26am
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I agree with you Corsair. //
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Elenorflower
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Dec 29 2012, 9:06pm
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Agreed
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 6:01pm
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Sure I had a similar experience
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burrahobbit
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Dec 29 2012, 7:05pm
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I don't think it was greed from Jackson...
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moreorless
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Dec 29 2012, 7:39pm
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Agree about more drama in later chapters...
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 12:40am
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A much harder call than FOTR for me...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 10:41am
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You wouldn't have to drop the Trolls, Beorn and the Eagles
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 1:03pm
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My points were more that...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 2:01pm
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Suggestions for themes
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burrahobbit
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Dec 30 2012, 2:28pm
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The problem is I'd say...
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 3:33pm
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Thorin
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arithmancer
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Dec 30 2012, 2:07pm
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I honestly don't see how they ever planned on making this two films.
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sauget.diblosio
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Dec 30 2012, 1:20pm
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Indeed it will
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 3:49pm
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Corsair??
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Ataahua
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Dec 29 2012, 11:23pm
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Ataahua
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Corsair of Umbar
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Dec 29 2012, 11:42pm
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:D
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Ataahua
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Dec 30 2012, 12:10am
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At least the commenters are giving the reviewer a run for his money. //
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Aragalen the Green
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Dec 29 2012, 4:42pm
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---> Personal comments have been edited out of this thread - it will be locked if they continue! //
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Altaira
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Dec 29 2012, 6:11pm
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This is typical CNN.
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Chainsaw Charlie
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Dec 29 2012, 8:17pm
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No critic ever talks about...
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Rostron2
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Dec 29 2012, 10:27pm
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Critics won't get fooled again?
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moreorless
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Dec 30 2012, 7:10pm
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