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Part of the wonder of Tolkien is that the workings of 'magic' are hidden, but I think both Varda and Galadriel

SilentLion
Rivendell

Dec 26 2012, 8:25pm


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Part of the wonder of Tolkien is that the workings of 'magic' are hidden, but I think both Varda and Galadriel [In reply to] Can't Post

Played a role.

Galadriel put a great deal of thought into her gifts, and while it would not have been possible for her to foresee the specific danger Frodo and Sam would face in Shelob's lair, it would have been pretty logical that they would be going into some pretty dark places in Mordor. So the gift of a special kind of pure, unsullied light would have been a good choice.

Tolkien never describes the details of when or how the Phial was made, but the purest source of light that Galadriel would have had access to was the 'starlight' from the Silmaril of Earendil. This was captured light of the Trees, which in turn came from the pure unsullied light of Eru that was given to Varda. So the Phial itself was a gift from both Galadriel and Varda.

I think also that the words that Sam uses are in fact an Elvish prayer to Elbereth, which is another name for Varda. It wouldn't make sense for Varda to be instructing Sam how to pray to herself, so that part most likely was some kind of intervention by Galadriel. Was Galaldriel watching the whole thing from afar and in telepathic contact with Sam? I doubt iit was that straightforward, but Galadriel may have spent a great deal of time looking into her mirror for hints or glimpses of the Fellowships progress. She may have been able to sense the Ringbearers were in some great danger, and both the Ring and the Phial may have provided enough of a link to suggest the prayer that Sam offered to Elbereth.

There is place in the Valaquenta that says that Varda when seated beside Manwe, can hear sounds from almost anywhere, so Varda (Elbereth) was the one being in creation who could have heard and answered Sam's prayer. It seems to be the way things work in Tolkien's world that good triumph's when beings of vastly disparate work together within a common framework (kind of the corallary to 'oft evil shall evil mar)

Subject User Time
Help from Varda? Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 23 2012, 4:00pm
    My bet is on Varda CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 24 2012, 11:07pm
        With Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 25 2012, 10:36am
            Part of the wonder of Tolkien is that the workings of 'magic' are hidden, but I think both Varda and Galadriel SilentLion Send a private message to SilentLion Dec 26 2012, 8:25pm
    Maybe both dubulous Send a private message to dubulous Dec 25 2012, 11:43am
    Eru Cyberia Send a private message to Cyberia Dec 27 2012, 12:49am
    Mostly Ulmo, I think. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Dec 28 2012, 12:23am
        Fascinating argument, and very well-constructed.// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 28 2012, 1:18am
            Thanks, CuriousG! I see I wrote "relatives" (of Frodo) instead of "parents." Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Dec 28 2012, 3:04am
                Au contraire, quite enjoyable to read them// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 28 2012, 6:05pm
        It Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 28 2012, 6:49am
            You know the lore of the Phial. You saw it being made. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Dec 28 2012, 4:55pm
                "Do not touch the water" question CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 28 2012, 6:12pm
                    I think It's mainly a mirror, actually. Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Dec 30 2012, 9:42pm

 
 
 

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