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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Bodily return

Elthir
Gondor

Dec 22 2012, 2:58pm


Views: 183
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Bodily return [In reply to] Can't Post


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Now this quote is interesting. I personally take it to mean that the Noldor could not return to Aman either by sailing across the sea or by daring the Helcaraxë. That, to me, would indicate that said elf was returning in the body. But upon death, the spirit returned to Mandos when sundered from the body. So the spirit returns to Mandos, awaits judgment, and is eventually "rehoused" in a like body and resumes interaction with the living.




Right, but in this essay I think it also refers to the decision to rehouse Glorfindel and allow him 'back' in bodily form in Aman during the ban, as that is what Manwe will be doing by not minding his own ordinance.

And I don't think the Waldman letter is necessarily dooming the Noldor to dwell forever on Tol Eressea, as in 'never' leave it. Why add the word permanently? But as others have pointed out, allowing one to visit but not dwell permanently has its own affect too -- or might have at least, on a given elf if not all of the Exiles.

And although we are in a very different context here, the Waldman comment arguably echoes a very early scenario found in notes to The Book of Lost Tales:




Quote

Defeat of Melko.
(...)
Elwing and most of the Elves go back to dwell in Tol Eressea. The Gods will not let them dwell in Valinor.




But even here, Christopher Tolkien notes: 'That some did return in the end to Valinor may be concluded from the words of Meril-i-Turinqi (I. 129) that Ingil, who built Kortirion, 'went long ago back to Valinor and is with Manwe.'

Smile


Subject User Time
Exil Noldor-to Aman or to Tol Eressea? Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 10 2012, 4:28pm
    Good question elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Dec 10 2012, 5:38pm
    Letters or the Tale Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 11 2012, 4:10pm
        Not a fan of the idea Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 11 2012, 7:25pm
            Visiting Valinor? Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 11 2012, 8:18pm
            Like being stuck looking over the fence at the party CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 11 2012, 9:07pm
                edited version Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 11 2012, 9:34pm
                That´s Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 11 2012, 9:37pm
                    later citations Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 11 2012, 9:50pm
    it shouldn't be illegal. PhantomS Send a private message to PhantomS Dec 15 2012, 12:29am
    I've pondered this myself Finwe Send a private message to Finwe Dec 17 2012, 8:53pm
    Finrod walks with finarfin in eldamar Aule Send a private message to Aule Dec 20 2012, 5:42pm
        Interesting point... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 20 2012, 5:49pm
            You're trippin Aule Send a private message to Aule Dec 20 2012, 6:11pm
                Like I said Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 20 2012, 6:51pm
                    Beren and luthien only edited by Christopher. Aule Send a private message to Aule Dec 20 2012, 7:19pm
                        I looked in Voronwe's book Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 20 2012, 8:14pm
                            A bigger question--what about the others? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 20 2012, 8:31pm
                                Reincarnation Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 20 2012, 9:15pm
                                    That had to be a long line of people waiting to be judged after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 20 2012, 9:46pm
                                        Desire Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 20 2012, 10:49pm
                                            Beautiful, but sad CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 21 2012, 1:06am
                                                Sad but beautiful Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 21 2012, 1:19am
                            I would date this revision... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 21 2012, 7:02pm
                                The ban of the Noldor Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 12:24am
                                    I Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 7:15am
                                        Galadriel's home Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 3:29pm
                                        Late quotes Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 3:53pm
                                    Bodily return Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 2:58pm
                                        Glorfindel Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 3:35pm
                                            Goldilocks Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 4:09pm
                                                Manwe's ordinances Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 4:17pm
                                                    Glorfindel II Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 4:22pm
                                                        My Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 5:13pm
                                                            Ingil's return Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 5:45pm
                                                                I don't remember if anyone has brought this up Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:18pm
                                                                    I Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 7:26pm
                                                                        It's says the Eldar Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:31pm
                                                                            Yes, Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 7:40pm
                                                                                The Noldor Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:45pm
                                                                                    You Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 7:48pm
                                                                                        In some versions Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:55pm
                                                                        external chronology Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 8:02pm
                                                        But he's gone through purgatory Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 22 2012, 7:15pm
                                                            How many Sun Years Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 8:22pm
                                                                I Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 8:32pm
                                                                    Exil Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 22 2012, 8:41pm
                                                                        Good question Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 22 2012, 9:15pm
                                                                            Tolkien Nerven Send a private message to Nerven Dec 23 2012, 12:21pm
                                                                Yeah, something like that Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 23 2012, 2:38am
            Chill Aule Send a private message to Aule Dec 20 2012, 6:18pm
        I thought of the same thing after reading Finwe's post... CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 20 2012, 6:23pm
            Tone Aule Send a private message to Aule Dec 20 2012, 6:33pm
                Finarfin CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 20 2012, 6:45pm
        This statement... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Dec 20 2012, 11:04pm

 
 
 

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