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Ardamírë
Valinor
Dec 22 2012, 12:24am
Views: 1356
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they could not return in bodily form to the Blessed Realm Now this quote is interesting. I personally take it to mean that the Noldor could not return to Aman either by sailing across the sea or by daring the Helcaraxë. That, to me, would indicate that said elf was returning in the body. But upon death, the spirit returned to Mandos when sundered from the body. So the spirit returns to Mandos, awaits judgment, and is eventually "rehoused" in a like body and resumes interaction with the living. Ok, so that takes care of the Noldor who return during the First Age, but after that, I don't have a clue. Is the ban lifted at the end of the War of Wrath? I can't remember. I know Galadriel seems to have her own private ban, but surely not all of the Noldor returned or died. In fact, Idril set sail into the west with Tuor, though I can't remember if they went beyond Tol Eressëa even during the First Age, so I'm all confused now. But really, I just don't think this idea of the Noldor doomed to dwell forever upon Tol Eressëa makes any sense. Why would they be forever doomed to a sort of purgatory? I don't think it fits with Tolkien's catholic beliefs (though, admittedly, I don't know much about Catholicism). I don't know, I think I'll have to stick to the Silmarillion as it stood, and as you quoted above:
And when they came into the West the Gnomes for the most part rehabited the Lonely Isle, that looks both West and East; and that land became very fair, and so remains. But some returned even to Valinor, as all were free to do who willed; and there the Gnomes were admitted again to the love of Manwe and the pardon of the Valar; and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest. If Tolkien pictured the rebellion of the Noldor as a sort of Biblical fall, then the return of the Noldor acts as a sort of redemption. To leave them on Tol Eressëa does not leave us the option of a full redemption.
Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima! Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars!
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Exil Noldor-to Aman or to Tol Eressea?
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Nerven
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Dec 10 2012, 4:28pm
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Good question
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elevorn
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Dec 10 2012, 5:38pm
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Letters or the Tale
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Elthir
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Dec 11 2012, 4:10pm
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Not a fan of the idea
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Ardamírë
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Dec 11 2012, 7:25pm
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Visiting Valinor?
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Elthir
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Dec 11 2012, 8:18pm
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Like being stuck looking over the fence at the party
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CuriousG
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Dec 11 2012, 9:07pm
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edited version
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Elthir
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Dec 11 2012, 9:34pm
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That´s
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Nerven
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Dec 11 2012, 9:37pm
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later citations
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Elthir
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Dec 11 2012, 9:50pm
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it shouldn't be illegal.
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PhantomS
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Dec 15 2012, 12:29am
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I've pondered this myself
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Finwe
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Dec 17 2012, 8:53pm
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Finrod walks with finarfin in eldamar
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Aule
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Dec 20 2012, 5:42pm
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Interesting point...
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Ardamírë
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Dec 20 2012, 5:49pm
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You're trippin
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Aule
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Dec 20 2012, 6:11pm
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Like I said
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Ardamírë
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Dec 20 2012, 6:51pm
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Beren and luthien only edited by Christopher.
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Aule
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Dec 20 2012, 7:19pm
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I looked in Voronwe's book
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Ardamírë
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Dec 20 2012, 8:14pm
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A bigger question--what about the others?
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 8:31pm
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Reincarnation
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Ardamírë
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Dec 20 2012, 9:15pm
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That had to be a long line of people waiting to be judged after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 9:46pm
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Desire
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Ardamírë
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Dec 20 2012, 10:49pm
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Beautiful, but sad
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CuriousG
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Dec 21 2012, 1:06am
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Sad but beautiful
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Ardamírë
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Dec 21 2012, 1:19am
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I would date this revision...
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Elthir
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Dec 21 2012, 7:02pm
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The ban of the Noldor
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 12:24am
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I
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 7:15am
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Galadriel's home
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 3:29pm
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Late quotes
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 3:53pm
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Bodily return
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 2:58pm
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Glorfindel
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 3:35pm
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Goldilocks
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 4:09pm
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Manwe's ordinances
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 4:17pm
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Glorfindel II
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 4:22pm
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My
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 5:13pm
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Ingil's return
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 5:45pm
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I don't remember if anyone has brought this up
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:18pm
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I
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 7:26pm
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It's says the Eldar
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:31pm
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Yes,
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 7:40pm
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The Noldor
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:45pm
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You
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 7:48pm
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In some versions
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:55pm
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external chronology
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 8:02pm
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But he's gone through purgatory
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Ardamírë
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Dec 22 2012, 7:15pm
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How many Sun Years
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 8:22pm
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I
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 8:32pm
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Exil
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Nerven
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Dec 22 2012, 8:41pm
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Good question
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Elthir
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Dec 22 2012, 9:15pm
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Tolkien
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Nerven
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Dec 23 2012, 12:21pm
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Yeah, something like that
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Ardamírë
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Dec 23 2012, 2:38am
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Chill
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Aule
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Dec 20 2012, 6:18pm
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I thought of the same thing after reading Finwe's post...
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 6:23pm
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Tone
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Aule
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Dec 20 2012, 6:33pm
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Finarfin
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 6:45pm
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This statement...
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Elthir
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Dec 20 2012, 11:04pm
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