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noWizardme
Half-elven
Dec 21 2012, 4:12pm
Views: 1418
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Elvish magic (a helpful/distracting thought from "On Fairy Stories"
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Can't Post
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Thanks Curious G and Cyberia! Good points both - I like the distinction between Blessed and Magical. I came across an interesting quote from Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories" There's a discussion of how a successful fairy tale creates a "Secondary World" (c.f. the real "Primary World" . If its creator is good, the Secondary World is "believable" in a special sense - you don't genuinely believe that it exists, but go along with behaving as if you did temporarily believe it, for the purpose of being entertained.) Then he says:
Art of the same sort, if more skilled and effortless, the elves can also use, or so reports seem to show; but the more potent and specially elvish craft I will, for lack of a less debatable word, call Enchantment. Enchantment produces a Secondary World into which both designer and spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside; but in its purity it is artistic in desire and purpose. Magic produces, or pretends to produce, an alteration in the Primary World. It does not matter by whom it is said to be practised, fay or mortal, it remains distinct from the other two; it is not art but a technique; its desire is power in this world, domination over things and wills. Given the context, I think we should be careful about relating this quote to our current discussion, but boy is it tempting. That would seem to back up the points CuriousG and Cyberia have made about the Elves not having magic in the sense we understand it - so Galadriel is not merely being difficult or pedantic or having a smile at the rustic hobbits; there is genuinely a racial difference in what magic is to an Elf as opposed to a mortal. It seems to me that it might explain the following a bit
- The Fellowship entering both Rivendell and Lorien lose track of time, despite having a very urgent quest. They are lost in a Secondary World - or is that a Tertiary World from our Point of View, since they are already a Secondary World to us?... [cough] noWizardme, stop being difficult
- The Elvish cloaks certainly are a kind of elvish craft which deceives both creator and audience - they are not cloaks of invisibility so much as super camouflage (not so sure about the rope though - it would seem odd to think it merely seemed to be securely knotted, but that was enough to make it bear weight...)
- Of the 3 races that worked with Sauron to get Rings, the Elves alone did not want "power in this world, domination over things and wills" (and perhaps came out better on the deal because of it?)
That said, I think the Elves do dabble in the dirty world of Power politics when they must (and who can blame them). I think CuriousG has an interesting point about how Galadriel does not try to steer her mirror (or says it works best when you don't) c.f. the palatir users and the troubles they have from it... Hmm - I think this might be helping, but I don't feel like I've got to the bottom of it, so do chip in if you can...
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Subject
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User
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Time
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'The problem of magic' in Tolkien
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 11:53am
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A thought about games
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 1:33pm
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Galadriel and semantics
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 7:37pm
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Magic vs Blessed
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Cyberia
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Dec 21 2012, 12:22am
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Elvish magic (a helpful/distracting thought from "On Fairy Stories"
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noWizardme
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Dec 21 2012, 4:12pm
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Palantiri vs Skype
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CuriousG
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Dec 20 2012, 10:14pm
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Or the palantir as YouTube?
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noWizardme
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Dec 21 2012, 6:59pm
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Gandalf's magic: a wizard's must
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CuriousG
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Dec 21 2012, 2:51am
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Compare & Contrast: Terry Pratchett's witches
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noWizardme
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Dec 27 2012, 12:55pm
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Magic and knowledge to Medieval witch hunters
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CuriousG
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Dec 28 2012, 2:06am
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A problem of terminology
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Mim
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Dec 23 2012, 6:41pm
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Magic & Grace of Valar/Aman/Undying Lands
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Nolofinwe
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Dec 24 2012, 3:38pm
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You can add to that
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sador
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Dec 24 2012, 4:33pm
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The dark side of magic: Nazgul
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CuriousG
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Dec 24 2012, 7:56pm
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passive elven magic
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Cyberia
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Dec 24 2012, 10:10pm
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Light vs. Dark..
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Nolofinwe
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Dec 25 2012, 4:56am
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Perception of Lorien (and Imladris for that matter)
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Nolofinwe
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Dec 25 2012, 4:09pm
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Good comparisons
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CuriousG
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Dec 25 2012, 4:24pm
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Yes
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Nolofinwe
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Dec 25 2012, 4:31pm
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Evidence of anger?
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Otaku-sempai
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Dec 26 2012, 2:37pm
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Read Gandalf's explanation to Frodo
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CuriousG
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Dec 28 2012, 1:55am
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Well, to be fair...
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Otaku-sempai
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Dec 28 2012, 9:26pm
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Please do!
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noWizardme
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Dec 27 2012, 12:45pm
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Hobbit magic (to add to the pot!)
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noWizardme
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Dec 27 2012, 6:21pm
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Elves/Rivendell
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Nolofinwe
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Dec 31 2012, 3:05pm
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