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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan?

noWizardme
Grey Havens

Dec 6 2012, 10:34pm


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Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan? [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like the Evil Overlord linkLaugh
I guess the theme of evil being self defeating can be done well And we love it (hubris, karma and all that ). Or you can have "Now Mr Bond I will kill you in the most ludicrously overcomplicated way imaginable, using a machine I devised after playing the family board game Mousetrap. But strangely I will not wait to make sure you die, as I must repair to my inexplicably explosion-prone Bond Villain HQ to carry out my other absurdly over complex plan with a very obvious drawback. As I have explained this plan in detail to you, you are now all the better equipped to defeat me using that information and the spy gadgets I have sportingly not searched you for."

I was thinking about whether the Villains of Lord of the Rings hatch Stupid Plans with Obvious Drawbacks though, and I don't think they do. They contribute to the defeat of each other (e.g Gollum doing everything he can to deny Sauron the ring; perfectly reasonable from his POV) . or they make not-too -unreasonable miscalculations (it ought to be safe to dismantle the outer defences of Minas Tirith- a large force has been sent to prevent the arrival of Rohan; the plan only goes wrong because there's a forgotten alternative route through). Some of the examples we've collected are Downfall Through Excessive Nastiness - but that seems reasonably realistic dictator behaviour too.

Is making the Ring, an "Evil Overlord" type mistake? I'm not sure. I suppose the ideal One Ring would come complete with a spell which would compel any finder to take it straight to Sauron. Or it would give out a very obvious homing signal. Of course, we don't know whether such technology is possible in Rings. There's a thread elsewhere about "what if Sauron had never made the Ring?" http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=527149;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I think the conclusion is that it wasn't a particularly silly move
I agree with Felagund in that thread:
"....the irony of the One Ring was that whilst Sauron was uniquely exposed to permanent destruction (ie. if someone happened to drop the Ring into Mount Doom), it was also the one artefact that enabled him to keep rebuilding his physical form - so much of his native power was vested in the Ring that killing Sauron's hröa wasn't enough to put him out of business."

Interestingly, "Evil Overlord" style plans are hatched by "the Wise" - "Lets send an extremely small party on a long journey into heavily defended enemy territory, requiring them to spend a long time near the Ring, with all its known power to corrupt!"
"Let's let Frodo faff about for ages at home and then later in Rivendell, when it is obvious that speed is of the essence!"
"Let's take the Ring through Moria! "
With the exception of the faffing hobbits, we do get these weaknesses debated by the characters though, and that gives JRRT his chance to persuade us that the good guys probably have no choice.
(Amusingly. Auto fill made that last sentence read "the goof guys" Smile )

Subject User Time
Oft evil will shall evil mar - a recurring theme? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 5 2012, 5:28pm
    A few more examples... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 5 2012, 6:16pm
        Heartily agree I do CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 5 2012, 7:45pm
        And more CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 6 2012, 6:03pm
            The one ring itself noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 6 2012, 6:23pm
    Yes, and by no means limited to Tolkien. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Dec 6 2012, 6:24pm
        The formula for James Bond and other villains CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 6 2012, 8:25pm
        Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 6 2012, 10:34pm
            Sauron as Evil Overlord Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Dec 7 2012, 3:45am
                Ah, I should have said "no Evil Overlord mistakes except the ones I didn't think of"... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 7 2012, 10:54am
                    Plotholes and eagles CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 7 2012, 4:26pm
                        Nazgul combat air patrol noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 7 2012, 5:09pm
                        A new eagle plot hole filler noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 7 2012, 5:35pm
                            It's an inexhaustable discussion topic. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Dec 7 2012, 7:07pm
                                I'm glad they didn't, but CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 7 2012, 7:27pm
                                    I agree with this Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 7 2012, 8:54pm
                                        Isn't there some Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Dec 8 2012, 3:36am
                                            In all honesty Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Dec 8 2012, 4:01pm
                    Heroes and underdogs CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 7 2012, 4:33pm
                The Nazgul and Evil Overlord rule 80 noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 7 2012, 6:36pm
            I think Sauron was clever about the One Ring CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 7 2012, 4:05pm
                An odd Return to Owner feature noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 7 2012, 4:27pm
        To say nothing of an idea likely close to Tolkien's heart: SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Dec 7 2012, 2:55pm
    interesting topic elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Dec 10 2012, 8:32pm
        A bit of both noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 10 2012, 9:14pm
        Credibility and the One Ring CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 11 2012, 4:58pm
            That's worth 2 new threads! :) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 16 2012, 7:09pm
                Gandalf answered #1 CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 16 2012, 8:52pm
                    given the slightest encouragement... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 18 2012, 12:07pm
    The greatest example of this has yet to be said!!!!!!!!!! Beren0nehanded Send a private message to Beren0nehanded Dec 11 2012, 1:26pm
    Morgoth the exception? Felagund Send a private message to Felagund Dec 16 2012, 5:25pm
        Curses can be your best friend CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 16 2012, 6:29pm
    link to eucatastrophy noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 18 2012, 3:22pm
        Second thoughts! noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 18 2012, 7:02pm
            Post then self-disagree? All too often. :) // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Dec 18 2012, 7:45pm
                "We knows what we thinks, precious." "No, no we doesn't think that at all!" noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Dec 18 2012, 9:53pm

 
 
 

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