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noWizardme
Half-elven
Dec 6 2012, 10:34pm
Views: 11154
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Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan?
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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I really like the Evil Overlord link
I guess the theme of evil being self defeating can be done well And we love it (hubris, karma and all that ). Or you can have "Now Mr Bond I will kill you in the most ludicrously overcomplicated way imaginable, using a machine I devised after playing the family board game Mousetrap. But strangely I will not wait to make sure you die, as I must repair to my inexplicably explosion-prone Bond Villain HQ to carry out my other absurdly over complex plan with a very obvious drawback. As I have explained this plan in detail to you, you are now all the better equipped to defeat me using that information and the spy gadgets I have sportingly not searched you for."
I was thinking about whether the Villains of Lord of the Rings hatch Stupid Plans with Obvious Drawbacks though, and I don't think they do. They contribute to the defeat of each other (e.g Gollum doing everything he can to deny Sauron the ring; perfectly reasonable from his POV) . or they make not-too -unreasonable miscalculations (it ought to be safe to dismantle the outer defences of Minas Tirith- a large force has been sent to prevent the arrival of Rohan; the plan only goes wrong because there's a forgotten alternative route through). Some of the examples we've collected are Downfall Through Excessive Nastiness - but that seems reasonably realistic dictator behaviour too.
Is making the Ring, an "Evil Overlord" type mistake? I'm not sure. I suppose the ideal One Ring would come complete with a spell which would compel any finder to take it straight to Sauron. Or it would give out a very obvious homing signal. Of course, we don't know whether such technology is possible in Rings. There's a thread elsewhere about "what if Sauron had never made the Ring?" http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=527149;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread I think the conclusion is that it wasn't a particularly silly move
I agree with Felagund in that thread:
"....the irony of the One Ring was that whilst Sauron was uniquely exposed to permanent destruction (ie. if someone happened to drop the Ring into Mount Doom), it was also the one artefact that enabled him to keep rebuilding his physical form - so much of his native power was vested in the Ring that killing Sauron's hröa wasn't enough to put him out of business."
Interestingly, "Evil Overlord" style plans are hatched by "the Wise" - "Lets send an extremely small party on a long journey into heavily defended enemy territory, requiring them to spend a long time near the Ring, with all its known power to corrupt!"
"Let's let Frodo faff about for ages at home and then later in Rivendell, when it is obvious that speed is of the essence!"
"Let's take the Ring through Moria! "
With the exception of the faffing hobbits, we do get these weaknesses debated by the characters though, and that gives JRRT his chance to persuade us that the good guys probably have no choice.
(Amusingly. Auto fill made that last sentence read "the goof guys"  )
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Oft evil will shall evil mar - a recurring theme?
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noWizardme
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Dec 5 2012, 5:28pm
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A few more examples...
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noWizardme
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Dec 5 2012, 6:16pm
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Heartily agree I do
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CuriousG
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Dec 5 2012, 7:45pm
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And more
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CuriousG
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Dec 6 2012, 6:03pm
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The one ring itself
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noWizardme
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Dec 6 2012, 6:23pm
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Yes, and by no means limited to Tolkien.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 6 2012, 6:24pm
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The formula for James Bond and other villains
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CuriousG
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Dec 6 2012, 8:25pm
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Interesting which side has an "evil overlord " plan?
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noWizardme
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Dec 6 2012, 10:34pm
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Sauron as Evil Overlord
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Elizabeth
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Dec 7 2012, 3:45am
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Ah, I should have said "no Evil Overlord mistakes except the ones I didn't think of"...
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 10:54am
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Plotholes and eagles
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:26pm
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Nazgul combat air patrol
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 5:09pm
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A new eagle plot hole filler
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 5:35pm
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It's an inexhaustable discussion topic.
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Elizabeth
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Dec 7 2012, 7:07pm
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I'm glad they didn't, but
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 7:27pm
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I agree with this
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Ardamírë
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Dec 7 2012, 8:54pm
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Isn't there some
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Plurmo
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Dec 8 2012, 3:36am
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In all honesty
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Ardamírë
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Dec 8 2012, 4:01pm
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Heroes and underdogs
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:33pm
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The Nazgul and Evil Overlord rule 80
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 6:36pm
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I think Sauron was clever about the One Ring
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CuriousG
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Dec 7 2012, 4:05pm
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An odd Return to Owner feature
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noWizardme
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Dec 7 2012, 4:27pm
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To say nothing of an idea likely close to Tolkien's heart:
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SirDennisC
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Dec 7 2012, 2:55pm
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interesting topic
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elostirion74
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Dec 10 2012, 8:32pm
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A bit of both
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noWizardme
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Dec 10 2012, 9:14pm
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Credibility and the One Ring
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CuriousG
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Dec 11 2012, 4:58pm
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That's worth 2 new threads! :)
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noWizardme
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Dec 16 2012, 7:09pm
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Gandalf answered #1
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CuriousG
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Dec 16 2012, 8:52pm
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given the slightest encouragement...
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 12:07pm
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The greatest example of this has yet to be said!!!!!!!!!!
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Beren0nehanded
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Dec 11 2012, 1:26pm
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Morgoth the exception?
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Felagund
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Dec 16 2012, 5:25pm
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Curses can be your best friend
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CuriousG
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Dec 16 2012, 6:29pm
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link to eucatastrophy
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 3:22pm
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Second thoughts!
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 7:02pm
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Post then self-disagree? All too often. :) //
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CuriousG
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Dec 18 2012, 7:45pm
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"We knows what we thinks, precious." "No, no we doesn't think that at all!"
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noWizardme
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Dec 18 2012, 9:53pm
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