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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Dec 1 2012, 8:07pm
Views: 2116
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Possible and proper are two different things entirely.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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That The Balrog was present near the threshold of Moria, and terrified all the vim and vigour out of Dain, despite the latter having been hardy and full of wrath and fresh off the slaying of a fleeing Azog, is without question. That the only reason given by Dain to Thrain in the company of the remaining Dwarven's host, all those still pledged directly to Durin's house (as opposed to the Dwarves whom you mention who were set to leave Balrog or no Balrog, who as the text tells were NOT of the Longbeard clan and had no interest in Khazad-Dum save as a source of weregild treasures), for not attempting to re-occupy Moria WAS The Balrog, who still lurked waiting for more of Durin's heirs to slay, is also without question.
The Balrog, his presence, his power, and the fear he instilled in Dwarves, is historical fact, so far as the texts go. This notion of a reserve army of goblins is entirely hypothetical postulation. Could it work? Meh. I suppose, even though it not only re-writes the history, but also the outcome of "The War of Dwarves and Goblins/Orcs" if the dwarves definitive victory ends in a retreat from still more goblins and orcs. It could also work to replace Smaug with a giant, or another demon, or a Nemean Lion. It could be made to work, but it changes the story rather dramatically, and it probably won't be as good.
A glimpse of the Balrog works on multiple levels. A) it meshes with the history/text B )It underscores the larger history of The Dwarves, especially in relation to Moria. It wasn't orcs that drove the dwarves out, and it wasn't orcs who barred their return, and you know these things well. C) It provides a much more satisfying answer for the dwarves not attempting to retake Moria. They spend a decade on an attempted genocide of orcs, systematically wiping out orc colonies from Gundabad to the southern arm of The Misty mountains, rout the goblin armies and slay their king. . . and then a fresh new goblin army sprouts up out of a deeper pit and the dwarves throw up there hands, say nevermind and go home? And this new army of orcs doesn't attempt to stop them? Finally it does more to properly foreshadow the events of Fellowship than Saruman's book could ever do. The Balrog doesn't just spring out of the blue, with a hastily cobbled bit of dialogue explaining, "by the way, this demon has been here all along, and he is the terror of Moria." The small glimpse of his presence, and the terror the dwarves evince at that presence, will solidify in the audiences mind, "something dreadful lairs in Moria. It is a place of dread." They will have a more proper fear and concern for The Fellowship entering that hellish place, and will also better appreciate and anticipate the potential clash between two great Powers that may result from it.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Subject
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User
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Time
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Balrog of Moria? Do the swirling flames behind Thorin at what appears to be The East Moria Gate herald a Demon of Might?
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 9:21am
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Where on earth are you seeing this footage from?
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Crunchable Birdses
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Nov 30 2012, 9:24am
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You have to go through all the essentially bootleg load ups of recent tv ads
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 9:29am
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Ah yes, I see now
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Crunchable Birdses
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Nov 30 2012, 9:40am
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Thing is, leaving Him out makes no real sense
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 9:42am
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Just more Orcs would do a similar job.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 30 2012, 10:15am
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I hope we get a small glimpse of the Balrog
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jtarkey
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Nov 30 2012, 10:52am
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Guess I have to do a reread,
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The Preciousss
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Nov 30 2012, 11:18am
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Ooh no
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 30 2012, 11:26am
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I think so. I think if they play it right, the victory, beyond hope, over Smaug, will
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 10:28pm
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No. If it were just a matter of more orcs, the Dwarves simply wouldn't have won the battle.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 10:53pm
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I don't follow.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Dec 1 2012, 12:15am
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It isn't personal. Go back and read the appendix on Durin's folk.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 1 2012, 2:37am
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I didn't think it was personal.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Dec 1 2012, 10:46am
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Possible and proper are two different things entirely.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 1 2012, 8:07pm
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About the movie FOTR (spoiler)-
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Hanzkaz
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Dec 2 2012, 7:09am
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Yes. In the books The Wise only knew that "A Terror" dwelt there, and many of the Elves of Lothlorien
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 2 2012, 8:26am
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But I believe the wise were aware of the full nature of the Balrog
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chazychris
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Dec 2 2012, 9:15am
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Lacrimae, I was looking over that part of the Appendecies again
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 2 2012, 11:45pm
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Absolutely
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Dec 4 2012, 11:03am
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For reference.
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Macfeast
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Nov 30 2012, 9:35am
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Thanks for the comparison shot.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 9:40am
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Since the fire is indeed spreading beyond the gate...
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waaimasjien
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Nov 30 2012, 9:42am
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awesome
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robmlisanti
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Nov 30 2012, 7:00pm
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It best be ...
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DanielLB
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Nov 30 2012, 9:39am
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How I think it should be done.
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Azaghâl
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Nov 30 2012, 11:42am
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Thought
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Shagrat
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Nov 30 2012, 11:58am
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i wonder...
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lidlessEye
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Nov 30 2012, 12:03pm
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THIS!!!
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jtarkey
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Nov 30 2012, 12:11pm
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Me likey
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redgiraffe
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Nov 30 2012, 12:42pm
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Dain
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Shagrat
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Nov 30 2012, 12:46pm
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Would be a shame if he wasn't there.
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Macfeast
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Nov 30 2012, 1:57pm
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I very much hope he is in
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Shagrat
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Nov 30 2012, 1:59pm
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I'll put my life savings on the Balrog turning up...but not on screen
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Kendalf
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Nov 30 2012, 4:25pm
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That`s not Balrog
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little mouse
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Nov 30 2012, 1:26pm
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I hope not. The Balrog should be woken up by the presence of Gandalf (in FOTR) and the rising power of the Ring.
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xxxyyy
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Nov 30 2012, 2:51pm
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then might've overread your book...
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lidlessEye
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Nov 30 2012, 3:59pm
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No, you have to refer to the movies, not the book. Movies first, book second.
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xxxyyy
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Dec 1 2012, 1:14am
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I hope so!
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Arthael
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Nov 30 2012, 4:31pm
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I hope
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Ardamírë
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Nov 30 2012, 8:45pm
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I wouldn't want the 'surprise' -
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Hanzkaz
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Nov 30 2012, 9:28pm
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I forget how it's explained in the book
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Ardamírë
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Nov 30 2012, 9:31pm
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It isn't really explained in the text.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 30 2012, 9:47pm
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Thanks for the refresher.
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Ardamírë
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Nov 30 2012, 10:05pm
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It's not really a question prompted by the text in all fairness.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 30 2012, 10:35pm
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I expect
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Ardamírë
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Nov 30 2012, 11:03pm
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I think(responding to Adamire as well) an earlier poster had it best. The shadow, flame and burning eyes
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 11:14pm
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Yes, but the sound matters just as much
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Kendalf
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Nov 30 2012, 11:56pm
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Though Tolkien always portrayed The Balrog as the strong silent type.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 1 2012, 1:51am
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You know what...
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Ardamírë
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Dec 1 2012, 1:16am
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*agreement hug*
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 1 2012, 2:39am
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Several things could be at play. The Greatest of The Seven Rings not least among them.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 30 2012, 11:19pm
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Just clarified this for myself. Balin almost certainly thought The Ring (Durin's Ring) was in Moria.
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AinurOlorin
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Dec 2 2012, 11:50pm
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