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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
I'm not so sure

sador
Valinor


Nov 20 2012, 8:43am


Views: 82
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I'm not so sure [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It is not clear in The Hobbit that Gandalf knows the true identity of the Necromancer; but, he clearly knows much more about him than either Bilbo or the Dwarves.


It appears from the conversation between Gandalf and Elrond that both know quite a bit about the Necromancer, enough to make predictions whether he would recover from this defeat.
True, we never read the name "Sauron" (anyway, Tolkien haven't yet conceived of that form) - but I think that on the contrary, there is no suggestion in The Hobbit that his true identity was long secret; that was a twist in The Council of Elrond, explaining Gandalf's opaque "finding out things, and a nasty business it was" from our first chapter.
And in the early drafts. it is clear that both Gandalf and Thorin (or Bladorthin and Gandalf, as they were called then) knew enough of him; however, Tolkien decide to delete the reference to Luthien, making the Necromancer a pretty obscure, but powerful, adversary.


In Reply To

Bad magic twists and corrupts both those using it and the victims of its power.

As opposed to Saruman's magic?


In Reply To
That was a simple connection to make. I automatically assumed that Radagast would have been part of Gandalf's council of white wizards.


So did I - after all, he was the only only wizard mentioned by name!
But I don't think I noticed the geographical proximity of Rhosgobel to Dol Guldur in the first several readings. Perhaps only when I started poring over the map appended to LotR (in which Rhosgobel doesn't appear, IIRC).


In Reply To
Over all, I think that the story benefits from the added depth, especially upon re-reading the book.


Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. That was the intent of my previous question. In this one I was wondering whether being left as a standalone book, people would simply not read it as often or as carefully as they do know - so that even if the sequel might be detrimental to The Hobbit as a story, it was beneficial to it as a book. Personally, I am leaning towards this opinion.


In Reply To

The visit that was accompanied by Balin was probably not the first and certainly not the last prior to LotR.


I get the impression that it was the first.
And it definitely wasn't the last - here, Bilbo is only considering writing his memoirs; but we know for sure that Gandalf forced the truth about Gollum from him some time afterwards!





"As all things come to an end, even this story..."

Here we read of Bilbo, who is “quiet and drowsy”, that “every now and again he would open one eye” and listen to Gandalf’s tale. Is Tolkien deliberately echoing this passage in LOTR when he writes, “At that Bilbo opened an eye, almost as if he had heard … ‘You see, I am getting so sleepy’, he said.”?
- N.E. Brigand



The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Return Journey!

Subject User Time
The Last Stage, part IV - Politics and Property sador Send a private message to sador Nov 18 2012, 4:44pm
    Thoughts Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Nov 18 2012, 9:13pm
        I'm not so sure sador Send a private message to sador Nov 20 2012, 8:43am
            For the most part, I agree... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Nov 20 2012, 1:02pm
    Tales and terminology FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Nov 18 2012, 9:40pm
        ''wizard' as a general term? sador Send a private message to sador Nov 20 2012, 9:32am
            Hope you don't mind.... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Nov 20 2012, 11:07am
                Not at all, but also yes sador Send a private message to sador Nov 20 2012, 2:21pm
                    His arm has grown long CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Nov 20 2012, 2:50pm
                    *embarrassed* FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Nov 21 2012, 8:45am
    The magic of politics CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Nov 20 2012, 12:58pm
        Answering without explaining sador Send a private message to sador Nov 22 2012, 3:48pm

 
 
 

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