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sador
Half-elven
Nov 20 2012, 8:43am
Views: 1504
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It is not clear in The Hobbit that Gandalf knows the true identity of the Necromancer; but, he clearly knows much more about him than either Bilbo or the Dwarves.
It appears from the conversation between Gandalf and Elrond that both know quite a bit about the Necromancer, enough to make predictions whether he would recover from this defeat.
True, we never read the name "Sauron" (anyway, Tolkien haven't yet conceived of that form) - but I think that on the contrary, there is no suggestion in The Hobbit that his true identity was long secret; that was a twist in The Council of Elrond, explaining Gandalf's opaque "finding out things, and a nasty business it was" from our first chapter.
And in the early drafts. it is clear that both Gandalf and Thorin (or Bladorthin and Gandalf, as they were called then) knew enough of him; however, Tolkien decide to delete the reference to Luthien, making the Necromancer a pretty obscure, but powerful, adversary.
Bad magic twists and corrupts both those using it and the victims of its power. As opposed to Saruman's magic?
That was a simple connection to make. I automatically assumed that Radagast would have been part of Gandalf's council of white wizards.
So did I - after all, he was the only only wizard mentioned by name!
But I don't think I noticed the geographical proximity of Rhosgobel to Dol Guldur in the first several readings. Perhaps only when I started poring over the map appended to LotR (in which Rhosgobel doesn't appear, IIRC).
Over all, I think that the story benefits from the added depth, especially upon re-reading the book.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. That was the intent of my previous question. In this one I was wondering whether being left as a standalone book, people would simply not read it as often or as carefully as they do know - so that even if the sequel might be detrimental to The Hobbit as a story, it was beneficial to it as a book. Personally, I am leaning towards this opinion.
The visit that was accompanied by Balin was probably not the first and certainly not the last prior to LotR.
I get the impression that it was the first.
And it definitely wasn't the last - here, Bilbo is only considering writing his memoirs; but we know for sure that Gandalf forced the truth about Gollum from him some time afterwards!
"As all things come to an end, even this story..."
Here we read of Bilbo, who is “quiet and drowsy”, that “every now and again he would open one eye” and listen to Gandalf’s tale. Is Tolkien deliberately echoing this passage in LOTR when he writes, “At that Bilbo opened an eye, almost as if he had heard … ‘You see, I am getting so sleepy’, he said.”?
- N.E. Brigand
The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Return Journey!
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The Last Stage, part IV - Politics and Property
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sador
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Nov 18 2012, 4:44pm
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Thoughts
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Otaku-sempai
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Nov 18 2012, 9:13pm
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I'm not so sure
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sador
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Nov 20 2012, 8:43am
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For the most part, I agree...
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Otaku-sempai
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Nov 20 2012, 1:02pm
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Tales and terminology
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FarFromHome
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Nov 18 2012, 9:40pm
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''wizard' as a general term?
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sador
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Nov 20 2012, 9:32am
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Hope you don't mind....
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FarFromHome
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Nov 20 2012, 11:07am
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Not at all, but also yes
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sador
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Nov 20 2012, 2:21pm
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His arm has grown long
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CuriousG
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Nov 20 2012, 2:50pm
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*embarrassed*
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FarFromHome
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Nov 21 2012, 8:45am
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The magic of politics
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CuriousG
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Nov 20 2012, 12:58pm
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Answering without explaining
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sador
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Nov 22 2012, 3:48pm
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