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Beutlin
Rivendell
Nov 15 2012, 12:54pm
Views: 843
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Middle-Earth feels "real" to you?
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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Last time I checked Middle-Earth was a great fictional mythological word, full of magic, dwarves, goblins and other fantasy creatures. Tolkien created a fascinating cosmos - but does it feel like real history? I am afraid not: Nations survive in a perpetual state of stagnation for millennia, technological improvements are hardly to be seen, the world is divided into bad and good factions, sex and lust are non-existent and barely any one doubts his or her motives. Does this feel real to you? Will Peter Jackson's films "last the test of time"? Will they be acknowledged as masterpieces of the early 21century or vanish into oblivion? I doubt both of these scenarios. They will remain in memory as great fantasy films, but I truly doubt that future film critics will write these names alongside such "classics" as "Citizen Kane" or "The Third Man". Then again, not many people watch such films outside of the small elite circle of film critics. Films and other art form which “last the test of time” are the ones that are cherished by the intellectual literati of the future. They might have good reasons for their judgements, but ultimately their reviews of 50-year-old films bear no significance to a general audience. Who really cares that “Citizen Kane” is supposed to be “the best film of all time”? A more important question would be if it were the most relevant film of today. And I hardly believe that this is the case. The most relevant films of this year are probably “The Avengers”, The Dark Knight Returns”, “Twilight” and ultimately “The Hobbit”. They will shape their viewer’s minds, just like these films have been shaped by the viewers that have come before. After that they might influence future film makers and they will remain in the hearts and minds of their most ardent fans (just like “Star Wars” or “Back to the Future”). But ultimately they will vanish with these people and only remain as rather obscure films of old – maybe still revered by some film critics who confuse the former filmmaker’s brilliance with their own lack thereof. Having said that, the main reason for this likely future are not the smaller and larger deficits of PJ's works that you and other have attacked, but the same problem that Tolkien's books have faced for more than half a century. A majority of the critics regard “The Lord of the Rings” as juvenile escapism, lacking the vital ingredients for a work of art that can “stand the test of time”. My question is: Why do you (or will you) trust the film critics more than the book critics?
Ceterum censeo montem artis magicae atrae esse delendum.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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There will be an Azanulbizar prologue in "An Unexpected Journey".
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 14 2012, 9:17pm
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Either its that, or Smaug's assault on Erebor
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 9:19pm
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I was expecting an official confirmation - or at least something from a "source"
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thomasofrohan
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Nov 14 2012, 9:25pm
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The film hasn't been locked down yet
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DanielLB
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Nov 14 2012, 9:29pm
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Are you a source? //
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 14 2012, 9:34pm
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Really?
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Arthael
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Nov 14 2012, 10:34pm
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I am a source!
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 14 2012, 9:33pm
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A flying source! The day Middle-earth stands still is upon us! //
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Plurmo
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Nov 16 2012, 2:19am
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I believe there is no better place for Azanulbizar
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Apatcha
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Nov 14 2012, 9:25pm
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I have thought this would be the case since the beginning.
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 14 2012, 9:32pm
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Are we sure Azanulbizar is even in the films?
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 9:30pm
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If it's brief, and fleshes out the Azog/Bolg vs Durin's line history of vengeance
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 9:32pm
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Like I said, it's fine
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 9:35pm
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Understood
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 9:37pm
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Because...
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 9:44pm
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If done right, I think showing Azanulbizar could make the conflict feel more personal and thus more interesting than "everyone hates orcs anyway"
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thomasofrohan
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Nov 14 2012, 9:49pm
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Agreed.
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Macfeast
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Nov 14 2012, 10:41pm
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Great points all around
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 10:46pm
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If Pj is as subtle as that
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 10:56pm
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Perhaps the failures that were King Kong and Lovely Bones
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 11:11pm
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Strange thing is
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 11:26pm
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Or alternatively
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 14 2012, 11:29pm
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A matter of opinion, of course
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 11:34pm
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Ah shot A is deemed to be X
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 14 2012, 11:41pm
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Until we see the films
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 11:53pm
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Or if you are the sort of person
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 14 2012, 11:56pm
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I would reckon
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 12:03am
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The angle of the horse leg kick was wrong?
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 15 2012, 12:32am
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Cheap shot
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 12:45am
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There are MOMENTS entirely about spectacle
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starlesswinter
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Nov 15 2012, 12:57am
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It all comes down to
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 1:15am
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Immersed
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Elessar
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Nov 15 2012, 1:20am
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Or ...
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 1:26am
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POV
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Elessar
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Nov 15 2012, 2:05am
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With a good imagination...
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totoro
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Nov 15 2012, 2:45am
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I dont think I lack an imagination
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 7:27am
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lol nt
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totoro
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Nov 16 2012, 9:07am
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Great example.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 15 2012, 7:39am
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My own take
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 8:02am
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Middle-Earth feels "real" to you?
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Beutlin
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Nov 15 2012, 12:54pm
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Yes, it does
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 2:48pm
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Not to mention that this "feigned" history
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 7:57pm
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It is a brilliant fictional mythology. But it is not history.
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Beutlin
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Nov 16 2012, 1:23am
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Literary criticism of LOTR seems to be changing
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 4:59pm
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Oh, I am not arguing that reception of Tolkien's works will never change.
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Beutlin
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Nov 16 2012, 1:41am
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POV 2
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Elessar
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Nov 15 2012, 1:52pm
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Absolutely
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 15 2012, 4:09pm
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Exactly....
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adnan
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Nov 15 2012, 8:47pm
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Heavenly Creatures, yes
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 11:35pm
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She knows Tolkien??
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 15 2012, 7:42am
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Knowing Tolkien
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starlesswinter
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Nov 15 2012, 7:48pm
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Fran is by far the most intelligent writer
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starlesswinter
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Nov 15 2012, 12:04am
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I also get that sense
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 4:40am
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Well
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starlesswinter
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Nov 15 2012, 6:47am
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If TT had been better...
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 15 2012, 7:31am
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King Kong was not a box office failure though.
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Carne
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Nov 14 2012, 11:40pm
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And
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Lusitano
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Nov 14 2012, 10:57pm
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Agreed thats great stuff
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 11:03pm
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Absolutely...
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adnan
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Nov 15 2012, 8:36pm
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Sure...
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:38pm
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I dont think PJ likes coincidences in a story but he loves action sequences, That all very fine with me.
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Dlanor da Great
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Nov 14 2012, 10:41pm
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It's in.
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Fardragon
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Nov 14 2012, 9:32pm
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Curious
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 9:33pm
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Pointless padding
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Fardragon
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Nov 14 2012, 9:35pm
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Azanulbizar is very importantant for an understanding of the
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 14 2012, 9:42pm
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Everyone hates orcs
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Fardragon
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Nov 14 2012, 9:45pm
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But it's a lot more cinematically interesting
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 10:01pm
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Agreed!
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Tim
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Nov 14 2012, 10:30pm
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Not really, all orcs are the same
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:33am
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If all orcs are the same
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Aitieuriskon
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Nov 15 2012, 3:02pm
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All orcs aren't the same but...
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Sinister71
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Nov 15 2012, 3:25pm
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I agree
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Aitieuriskon
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Nov 15 2012, 3:35pm
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But none of that is needed
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 9:47pm
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I think I remember that interview
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 9:36pm
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It the one where he talks about playing a younger Thorin
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Fardragon
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Nov 14 2012, 9:38pm
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Plus in Vlog, we see Thorin
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Fàfnir
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Nov 14 2012, 9:41pm
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Yup, the BO5A isn't filmed until next year. /
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DanielLB
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Nov 14 2012, 9:42pm
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Also, we know from the Official Movie Gude (and perhaps elsewhere)
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Nov 14 2012, 11:30pm
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Im also unsure about this
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 9:47pm
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This is a fear I have as well
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 10:04pm
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Good point
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Ardamírë
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Nov 14 2012, 10:05pm
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Got to admit
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 10:09pm
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That's because it's not very interesting!
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:24am
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And the Battle of the Last Alliance...
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Macfeast
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Nov 15 2012, 12:05pm
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Thoughts based on music...
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Shagrat
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Nov 15 2012, 12:11pm
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Sure, you can make a battle interesting by focusing on details
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 3:35pm
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The story can absolutely do without these details
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Macfeast
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Nov 15 2012, 3:45pm
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I don't see it enriching the films "a great deal"
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 4:16pm
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Fortunately for many of us
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Lusitano
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Nov 15 2012, 4:52pm
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Response.
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 6:26pm
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Fardragon, you surprise me
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 6:30pm
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1 No, since the decision was made on a base of creativity and lack
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Lusitano
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Nov 15 2012, 6:41pm
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Most definitely!
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:17pm
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Studio
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dave_lf
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Nov 15 2012, 8:22pm
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Cheesy?
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 8:25pm
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Cheese free!
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Tim
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Nov 15 2012, 8:27pm
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The last alliance scene stank of so much cheese
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:31pm
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But there was a lot more to the prologue
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 15 2012, 8:34pm
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Was there?
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Fardragon
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Nov 15 2012, 8:35pm
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Clearly
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Lusitano
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Nov 16 2012, 1:03am
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Padding is padding
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starlesswinter
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Nov 15 2012, 7:46pm
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That's your definition of padding
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 16 2012, 6:16am
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verisimilitude?
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Fardragon
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Nov 16 2012, 8:36am
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Verisimilitude
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totoro
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Nov 16 2012, 9:42am
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Who decided that films can't be about truth?
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 16 2012, 11:25pm
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The audience!
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Fardragon
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Nov 17 2012, 8:59am
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You seem rather nearsighted.
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 17 2012, 7:37pm
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This is what I mean by elitist:
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Fardragon
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Nov 18 2012, 8:38am
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You say your an elitist
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 19 2012, 3:39am
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You fight like a cow!
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Fardragon
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Nov 19 2012, 7:48am
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Fight?
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 19 2012, 3:13pm
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What is good for the goose is good for the gander
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Elessar
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Nov 16 2012, 1:59pm
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Every author is guilty of padding
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starlesswinter
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Nov 16 2012, 11:02pm
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Of course films have time to indulge
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 16 2012, 11:27pm
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Well, yes, but not as much as a book
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starlesswinter
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Nov 16 2012, 11:35pm
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Agreed
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 16 2012, 11:42pm
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Really? I feel that the atmosphere is one thing he got right.
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starlesswinter
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Nov 16 2012, 11:53pm
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The more complex the source material
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Fardragon
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Nov 17 2012, 3:03pm
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Really?
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starlesswinter
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Nov 17 2012, 7:21pm
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The Prizoner of Azkaban stands out.
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 17 2012, 7:40pm
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Agreed
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starlesswinter
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Nov 17 2012, 9:06pm
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Agreed 100%
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 17 2012, 9:07pm
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Although I am very much a Peter Jackson fan
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starlesswinter
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Nov 17 2012, 9:25pm
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During the speculation about who would direct
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 17 2012, 10:21pm
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He was my first pick when Del Toro left. //
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Kangi Ska
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Nov 18 2012, 2:21am
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It pains me to think
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 18 2012, 6:44am
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Jackson or Spielberg
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Elessar
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Nov 18 2012, 7:29am
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Spielberg & Tolkien?!
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Fardragon
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Nov 18 2012, 8:36am
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Absolutely
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Elessar
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Nov 18 2012, 3:56pm
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Have to agree with Fardragon here
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 18 2012, 7:11pm
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I believe Spielberg has already turned down Star Wars
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starlesswinter
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Nov 18 2012, 8:06pm
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A few have hedged
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Fardragon
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Nov 18 2012, 9:55pm
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I've seen them all many times
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Fardragon
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Nov 18 2012, 8:28am
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Actually I would have to agree with SA
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Nov 18 2012, 4:39pm
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Thanks for the armchair psychology, but no
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 18 2012, 7:08pm
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Not so for me
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starlesswinter
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Nov 18 2012, 8:05pm
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Yup
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 18 2012, 8:16pm
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Meat on the bone
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Elessar
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Nov 15 2012, 4:42pm
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By the way.
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Macfeast
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Nov 17 2012, 2:48am
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Apart from the Spanish conquistadoresque helmets of the dwarves
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 17 2012, 2:51am
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Character Arcs are actually a good thing.
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Elutherian
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Nov 14 2012, 10:08pm
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That depends on the need for an arc
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pettytyrant101
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Nov 14 2012, 10:27pm
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Yes, yes
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 14 2012, 10:34pm
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Agreed.//
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Owain
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Nov 16 2012, 5:43am
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Maybe the last notes of "A good Omen"...
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Fàfnir
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Nov 14 2012, 9:35pm
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But
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dave_lf
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Nov 14 2012, 9:53pm
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Now we have 3 films it's extremely likely
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sycorax82
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Nov 14 2012, 9:39pm
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3 "Prologues" sprinkled throughtout the first half?
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Arthael
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Nov 14 2012, 10:53pm
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I think there is a good chance that we will glimpse The Balrog as well.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 15 2012, 7:42am
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The Balrog = An Ancient Enemy?
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Shagrat
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Nov 15 2012, 9:54am
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OK, just had a thought, although I know Shore's -much- better than this..
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Xanaseb
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Nov 15 2012, 11:31am
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Neither Balrog nor Smaug is the "Ancient Enemy" (potential spoilers)
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Nov 15 2012, 12:16pm
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'An Ancient Enemy'
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Shagrat
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Nov 15 2012, 1:03pm
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Yes and no (spoilers)
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Nov 15 2012, 1:15pm
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The Balrog AND the Battle of Anazar-thingy (always spell it wrong)?...Awesome!
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malickfan
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Nov 15 2012, 3:26pm
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Please no Balrog
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Ardamírë
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Nov 15 2012, 3:32pm
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The Balrog is, in some ways, the most directly significant figure in Third Age Dwarven history.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 16 2012, 12:38am
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I'm pretty sure
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Ardamírë
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Nov 16 2012, 12:59am
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I am half with you.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 16 2012, 1:13am
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Malfeasance...
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Tim
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Nov 16 2012, 5:39am
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Lol. Why thank you, sir.
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AinurOlorin
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Nov 16 2012, 8:26am
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