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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My personal almost biological solution

Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Rohan


Nov 10 2012, 6:03pm


Views: 295
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My personal almost biological solution [In reply to] Can't Post

Because I already was part of (felt like 10 but almost) 2 different "Are Orcs and Goblins the same or perhaps different races?"-discussion here on TORn I just want to focus on Peter Jacksons movies this time (not Tolkiens books!!!):

Orcs and Goblins are shown as two different races of the species of orc like the Uruks are a different race/bred of them as well. The LOTR-trilogy showed us that Goblins are the smallest bred of Orc, the first Orcs of Mordor and Isengard were a bit bigger and the Uruk-Hai from Isengard are the biggest race. After watching the Making Of ROTK two days ago I learned that lots of the Orcs from Mordor at the Battle of Minas Tirith were even bigger than the Uruk-Hai and seemed to be the ultimate Orc-Warriors bred, trained and improved long in Mordor with better armor and weapons. On the BluRay EE they were called "Saurons Orcs" or "New Orcs".

And there was a size comparison:
Goblins (small), Orcs (bigger but still smaller than humans), Uruk-Hai (human-sized), "Saurons New Orcs" (a bit larger than humans). I'm not sure if these "New Orcs" were the same as the "Black Uruks" mentioned by Tolkien. But this is movie-canon! Basically they're all the same. "Orc" seems to be the commen word for this species but within this species there are different races. Like us. We're all humans "Homo sapiens sapiens" but within our species there are different races with small or bigger different evolutionary adaptations addicted to our enviroments.

The difference between Peter Jacksons Goblins and Orcs in The Hobbit trilogy is even bigger than it was in LOTR. The Goblins are small, have big eyes, with long arms, big heads, long ears, almost naked. The perfect "underground" Orc. Like a naked mole rat is a perfect "underground" mammal compared to typical mammals like rats, mice or cats.


Of course I didn't ask Peter Jackson about that but if you compare the images we already have seen of Goblins to the ones with Dol Guldur/Gundabad-Orcs on it, I would say that the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were called "Goblins" and the Orcs outside the Misty Mountains were called "Orcs". It is as Peter Jackson tries to build a more realistic Middle-earth where all makes sense in a way... Wink

"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."

(This post was edited by Lieutenant of Dol Guldur on Nov 10 2012, 6:08pm)

Subject User Time
Goblin/Orc connection? YaznegSouth40 Send a private message to YaznegSouth40 Nov 9 2012, 8:42pm
    We don't know for certain I don't think. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Nov 9 2012, 8:48pm
    Tolkien used the term interchangeably Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 9 2012, 10:09pm
        yeah he used them interchangeably earlier on, however I'm pretty (but not 100%) that by the LOTR he referred to goblins as being a bit different to Orcs Xanaseb Send a private message to Xanaseb Nov 10 2012, 12:02am
    Goblin/Orc Distinguished chrism628 Send a private message to chrism628 Nov 9 2012, 10:21pm
        Orc domination YaznegSouth40 Send a private message to YaznegSouth40 Nov 9 2012, 10:35pm
            However.... YaznegSouth40 Send a private message to YaznegSouth40 Nov 9 2012, 10:38pm
                I'm excited too Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 10 2012, 3:48am
    In the movie, Gandalf will assure Bilbo (spoilers) burgahobbit Send a private message to burgahobbit Nov 9 2012, 10:33pm
    Well, here's the thing: Lightice Send a private message to Lightice Nov 10 2012, 12:13am
        Music to my ears Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 10 2012, 4:49am
    Orc is just another word for goblin Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 10 2012, 3:28am
    My personal almost biological solution Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Nov 10 2012, 6:03pm
        But there were no "goblins" referenced in the LOTR films Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 10 2012, 6:56pm
            Not in every translation Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Send a private message to Lieutenant of Dol Guldur Nov 10 2012, 7:02pm
            It seems in PJ's films, all Goblins are Orcs, but not all Orcs are Goblins... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Nov 10 2012, 7:10pm
                The Misty Mountains ones work best for me Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 10 2012, 7:12pm
            Oh but there is ForestPark Nov 10 2012, 11:29pm
                Goblin-men GothmogTheBalrog Send a private message to GothmogTheBalrog Nov 11 2012, 2:50am
                    There is an old saying.. ForestPark Nov 11 2012, 3:43am
                        LOL/// Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 11 2012, 1:00pm
            No actually he says "goblins". Tim Send a private message to Tim Nov 11 2012, 3:43am
                You speak that with which I agree Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 11 2012, 2:53pm
                    I think the terms are interchangeable totoro Send a private message to totoro Nov 11 2012, 7:02pm
                        They are interchangeable Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 7:32pm
                            "Orc" of course being GothmogTheBalrog Send a private message to GothmogTheBalrog Nov 12 2012, 4:40am
                                That's true Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 12 2012, 12:42pm
                        Tolkien's note to the third edition Hobbit Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 11 2012, 10:39pm
                        by the way... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 11 2012, 10:57pm
        Film canon Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Nov 11 2012, 1:24am

 
 
 

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