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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
All or nothing at all

dreamflower
Lorien

Nov 9 2012, 4:49pm


Views: 398
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All or nothing at all [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people seem to think that you have to hate the movies in order to love the books.

I can pick nits with the best of the purists, and I can find fault with the characterizations like the rest--here are a few you missed:

"Merry and Pippin were not just clueless accidents! PJ gutted the Conspiracy and all their backstory!"
"Arwen would never even have started for the Havens."
"Elrond was kind as summer, not a grumpy old man! And he was fond of Aragorn!"

And yet. There are a lot of movie moments that do bother me lifted straight from the screen--but I do understand the need to simplify things onscreen for those who never read the books. For those of us who DID we can use our knowledge to fill in the parts PJ missed, or to interpret them in a slightly different way that brings the characters closer to our own interpretations. For example, I HATE the whole Gollum/Sam/Lembas scene, finding it rather lame. And yet, while I agree that book-Frodo would never send Sam away at all, I don't see movie-Frodo as sending Sam off because he believed Gollum, but rather because he feared for Sam and for how he would react to Sam as the Ring increased its influence on him. I dislike immensely the way the hobbits cross the Brandywine in one scene and end up in Bree in the next--but I can imagine what happens in between. Also, I have to differ with those who see movie-Frodo as "weak"; certainly he was more conflicted than book-Frodo, and the Ring began its hold on him more quickly, but he kept going. There was nothing weak about him when he began that last crawl up Mount Doom.

And I can interpret Aragorn's supposed doubts in the movies not as doubt of his right to be King, but as the very proper and virtuous humility of someone who knows his duty but is not seeking after power. Likewise I can interpret some of Gimli's and Pippin's sillier moments as deliberate attempts to lighten the mood and cheer the Company. (For example: in the movies, Merry and Pippin must have known exactly where they were going after the Council--they'd been eavesdropping just like Sam; Pippin's question must have been a deliberate choice to make a joke. And in the EE, when Gimli falls off the horse in the "stew scene" I think he was telling the absolute truth when he said "that was deliberate". He made Eowyn smile. )

Most of the really poor characterization changes were due to PJ's insistence on magnifying the Ring's power beyond what it was even in the books. So within the movie-verse they make a certain amount of sense.

I have a harder time with things that did not even make sense in the context of the movie: Gandalf telling Frodo and Sam he'd meet them in Bree when he's heading off to Isengard is one; failing to account for Elrond's actions after showing up in Dunharrow is another.

Yet these things do not take away from the great achievement of PJ's version of LotR. There are flaws in every movie ever made, and even more in most movies made from books. He did a brilliant job overall, and I expect that with the things he learned from the making of it, his version of TH will be even better.

But just like the LotR movies, it will still be fanfic.

Nothing wrong with that, so long as you can remember the difference between fanon and canon.

Subject User Time
Can someone explain to me this need for every character to be lordly and proper all the time? starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 7:09am
    This might be moved over to the board for the trilogy, as it seems to be more relevant to those films MatthewJer18 Send a private message to MatthewJer18 Nov 8 2012, 7:14am
    Completely Agree on this! Elutherian Send a private message to Elutherian Nov 8 2012, 7:50am
        Film Gimli is nothing like his book self DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 8 2012, 8:11am
    If you prefer ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 8:27am
        Aragorn is the perfect example of a character who had no need ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 8:58am
            It's not a formulaic cliche - it's what storytelling/character is entirely about starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 7:56pm
                What people tend to forget about LotR GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Nov 8 2012, 11:13pm
                    will and self-mastery and maybe ... Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Nov 8 2012, 11:29pm
                        I think what all this boils down to... starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 6:28pm
                            LOTR ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 6:51pm
                                LOTR in no way resembles your life? Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 7:09pm
                                    Magpie after Moving to the Shire in my Mind's Eye Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 10 2012, 8:57pm
                                        When a friend I made in Tolkien died unexpectedly... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 9:54pm
                                            Magpie! ...Goldberry will be waiting to Meet you.. Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 11 2012, 1:28am
                                                for you... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 11 2012, 1:37am
                                            A wonderful post Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 2:06am
                                I'm sure MANY would disagree that he removed the mundane parts starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 7:31pm
                                    Magpie ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 8:04pm
                                        aha! Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 8:48pm
                Of course it is formulaic cliche ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 11:56pm
                    Not every character has to, but it's important that the main characters do starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:06am
                        In the book Aragorn is a main character ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 3:36am
                            Aragorn macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 10 2012, 10:18am
                                Your opinion ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 5:51pm
                            RE: Aragorn and Faramir starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 6:57pm
                                Exactly macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 11 2012, 12:26pm
                                    I understand your opinion Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 5:43pm
                                        Nobody here used those words starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 11 2012, 6:57pm
                                            starless ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 11 2012, 7:42pm
                                                Re: change starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 2:19am
                                                    But too many character arcs in an ensemble Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 3:05am
                                                        True, but... starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 3:28am
                                                            Agreed Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 3:59am
                                            I'm not insulted at all Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 8:19pm
                                                Sorry, I did not mean to come across that way starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 2:13am
                                                    No worries - it didn't bother me at all! {NT} Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 2:14am
                                    You can't be talking about me surely ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 11 2012, 6:47pm
                                        I wasn't calling you it specifically macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 11 2012, 9:39pm
        Then again... macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 8 2012, 9:00am
            Aragorn is a better man than the Mouth ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 9:19am
                Good point about Beregond. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 8 2012, 1:21pm
    Gimli isnt too bad in FOTR imin Send a private message to imin Nov 8 2012, 2:34pm
        Well put imin DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 8 2012, 3:22pm
        I only remember Gimli burping once... Elutherian Send a private message to Elutherian Nov 11 2012, 3:34am
    as regards Gimli Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Nov 8 2012, 5:28pm
    This is something that gets at me too GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Nov 8 2012, 6:03pm
        Amen starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 8:09pm
            why not create something original then? Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 8 2012, 9:54pm
                Because you can love something and not think EVERYTHING is well done starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:25am
    All or nothing at all dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 9 2012, 4:49pm
        I don't think GothmogTheBalrog Send a private message to GothmogTheBalrog Nov 9 2012, 4:56pm
            "I meant to do that." acheron Send a private message to acheron Nov 9 2012, 5:02pm
                Calvin & Hobbes? Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 9 2012, 10:02pm
        Fanon I like that... LOL Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 9 2012, 10:03pm
        RE: Gandalf and Bree starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:12am
            Re: Gandalf and Bree dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 10 2012, 2:22am
                Re: Time starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 7:03pm
                    But he did not have Shadowfax when he left the Shire dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 10 2012, 8:29pm
                        Honestly I don't think it's something most people even notice starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 11:42pm
                            Probably not. But I did. dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 11 2012, 5:05am

 
 
 

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