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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
This is something that gets at me too

GoodGuyA
Lorien

Nov 8 2012, 6:03pm


Views: 563
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This is something that gets at me too [In reply to] Can't Post

It has nothing to do with being "proper" though. It's that "All good guys must be nice to each other, because if they are slightly antagonistic then they are evil". Some people hated the idea that Boromir had redemptive qualities because he was just supposed to be a bad nut. Others disliked Gollum being shown as anything but a sneak. Elrond's antagonism rather than his cheeriness brought to the forefront is actually not a huge character change, but it still angered some. Of course there's also Faramir's changes, which I can understand frustration with on some levels, but some dismiss the completely valid motivation as well. And Frodo as well, which really ties into Gollum more than it does Frodo, which is a really interesting exploration of the character but people hate it because he's mean to Sam. Why is it that they must agree on everything?

Characters who oppose the Fellowship are also corrupted in some form. Theoden is held by Grima's sway, but then is revived and never questions the heroes again. Denethor is a bad one because he is held by the palantir, not because he just, y'know, has different opinions on how to run his city. The Army of the Dead are betrayers who must be forced by a promise to help. The rest of the characters are just monstrous because it's in their nature, which I'm okay with, but if we have no "grey" in the good side then it actually is the most black and white story you can imagine. A few remarks from Gandalf to Pippin does not make it a multi-layered story. Conflicting ideas and opinions creates real drama, as well as really playing properly on the character dynamics at hand rather than them just saying "Yep" or nothing at all.

The story would be so straightforward (if massive) were there no fights about anything which wasn't just petty business (the dwarf/elf conflict is so insubstantial and never affects what Gimli or Legolas does or says). Going to Helm's Deep is a decision. Assembling the armies of men is a decision. Are we not allowed to see some internal strife, rather than being passed along from one location to the next? I personally think Jackson & Co. picked up on some key opportunities to expand the story and did so in ways which are exciting and fulfilling the potential which existed. Perhaps if he ignored these dynamics, he would have gotten the whole tale into the films, but it would have lacked character.

Subject User Time
Can someone explain to me this need for every character to be lordly and proper all the time? starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 7:09am
    This might be moved over to the board for the trilogy, as it seems to be more relevant to those films MatthewJer18 Send a private message to MatthewJer18 Nov 8 2012, 7:14am
    Completely Agree on this! Elutherian Send a private message to Elutherian Nov 8 2012, 7:50am
        Film Gimli is nothing like his book self DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 8 2012, 8:11am
    If you prefer ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 8:27am
        Aragorn is the perfect example of a character who had no need ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 8:58am
            It's not a formulaic cliche - it's what storytelling/character is entirely about starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 7:56pm
                What people tend to forget about LotR GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Nov 8 2012, 11:13pm
                    will and self-mastery and maybe ... Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Nov 8 2012, 11:29pm
                        I think what all this boils down to... starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 6:28pm
                            LOTR ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 6:51pm
                                LOTR in no way resembles your life? Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 7:09pm
                                    Magpie after Moving to the Shire in my Mind's Eye Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 10 2012, 8:57pm
                                        When a friend I made in Tolkien died unexpectedly... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 9:54pm
                                            Magpie! ...Goldberry will be waiting to Meet you.. Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 11 2012, 1:28am
                                                for you... Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 11 2012, 1:37am
                                            A wonderful post Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 2:06am
                                I'm sure MANY would disagree that he removed the mundane parts starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 7:31pm
                                    Magpie ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 8:04pm
                                        aha! Magpie Send a private message to Magpie Nov 10 2012, 8:48pm
                Of course it is formulaic cliche ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 11:56pm
                    Not every character has to, but it's important that the main characters do starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:06am
                        In the book Aragorn is a main character ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 3:36am
                            Aragorn macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 10 2012, 10:18am
                                Your opinion ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 10 2012, 5:51pm
                            RE: Aragorn and Faramir starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 6:57pm
                                Exactly macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 11 2012, 12:26pm
                                    I understand your opinion Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 5:43pm
                                        Nobody here used those words starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 11 2012, 6:57pm
                                            starless ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 11 2012, 7:42pm
                                                Re: change starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 2:19am
                                                    But too many character arcs in an ensemble Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 3:05am
                                                        True, but... starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 3:28am
                                                            Agreed Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 3:59am
                                            I'm not insulted at all Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 11 2012, 8:19pm
                                                Sorry, I did not mean to come across that way starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 12 2012, 2:13am
                                                    No worries - it didn't bother me at all! {NT} Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Nov 12 2012, 2:14am
                                    You can't be talking about me surely ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 11 2012, 6:47pm
                                        I wasn't calling you it specifically macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 11 2012, 9:39pm
        Then again... macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Nov 8 2012, 9:00am
            Aragorn is a better man than the Mouth ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Nov 8 2012, 9:19am
                Good point about Beregond. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Nov 8 2012, 1:21pm
    Gimli isnt too bad in FOTR imin Send a private message to imin Nov 8 2012, 2:34pm
        Well put imin DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Nov 8 2012, 3:22pm
        I only remember Gimli burping once... Elutherian Send a private message to Elutherian Nov 11 2012, 3:34am
    as regards Gimli Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Nov 8 2012, 5:28pm
    This is something that gets at me too GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Nov 8 2012, 6:03pm
        Amen starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 8 2012, 8:09pm
            why not create something original then? Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 8 2012, 9:54pm
                Because you can love something and not think EVERYTHING is well done starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:25am
    All or nothing at all dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 9 2012, 4:49pm
        I don't think GothmogTheBalrog Send a private message to GothmogTheBalrog Nov 9 2012, 4:56pm
            "I meant to do that." acheron Send a private message to acheron Nov 9 2012, 5:02pm
                Calvin & Hobbes? Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Nov 9 2012, 10:02pm
        Fanon I like that... LOL Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Nov 9 2012, 10:03pm
        RE: Gandalf and Bree starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 1:12am
            Re: Gandalf and Bree dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 10 2012, 2:22am
                Re: Time starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 7:03pm
                    But he did not have Shadowfax when he left the Shire dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 10 2012, 8:29pm
                        Honestly I don't think it's something most people even notice starlesswinter Send a private message to starlesswinter Nov 10 2012, 11:42pm
                            Probably not. But I did. dreamflower Send a private message to dreamflower Nov 11 2012, 5:05am

 
 
 

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