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starlesswinter
Lorien
Nov 8 2012, 7:09am
Views: 2732
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Can someone explain to me this need for every character to be lordly and proper all the time?
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Can't Post
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Ever since the LOTR films were in theatres, I've seen this trend of fans complaining about changes to character, which essentially are attempts at giving the characters more of a "journey" or making them more flawed so that they have somewhere to develop over the course of the films. Faramir is the obvious example, of course. This trend has continued with responses to what we've seen of the Hobbit. However, anytime there's a change, I see responses like this: "Legolas wouldn't jump on a horse like that and show off - he's a valiant elf!" "Gimli would never joke like that - he's a brave dwarf!" "But Denethor was much more of a respectable leader in the books!" "Faramir would never give into the temptation of the Ring like that!" "Sam would never leave Frodo's side! He'd stick with him the whole way!" "Aragorn would never lose his temper like that!" "Frodo wasn't that whiny in the book!" "Theoden shouldn't be so reluctant and doubtful!" Now, let me be clear here...I'm not saying that Gimli should be burping and farting all the time, but these ideas crop up that reduce the cinematic portrayals of these characters to JUST the changes. Gimli is used as comic relief for sure, but there are plenty of varied emotions associated with his character. In Moria we see his despair, at the Council of Elrond we see his anger, at the Black Gates we see his compassion growing for Legolas, and so on.... Why then is it such an issue that he's used for comedy moments? And why is such a sin for Faramir to be temped by the Ring, when he ends up ultimately rejecting it anyway? There seems to be a pattern of fans wanting Tolkien characters to embody these perfect archetypal identities who represent some noble aspect 100% of the time. If this were an allegory I'd say that's a perfectly valid thing to want, but considering Middle-Earth is supposed to feel like a real place in terms of culture and landscape, it doesn't make sense to me to have these perfectly morally-optimistic people within it. Stories are entirely about change and conflict, so surely it's more entertaining and satisfying to watch characters struggle through bad decisions and mistakes and then work them out? Furthermore, real people laugh and joke - they don't merely sit around and speak about serious wartime decisions. I just don't see how any of these characters without some sort of development are in any way interesting.
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Time
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Can someone explain to me this need for every character to be lordly and proper all the time?
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starlesswinter
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Nov 8 2012, 7:09am
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This might be moved over to the board for the trilogy, as it seems to be more relevant to those films
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MatthewJer18
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Nov 8 2012, 7:14am
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Completely Agree on this!
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Elutherian
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Nov 8 2012, 7:50am
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Film Gimli is nothing like his book self
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DanielLB
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Nov 8 2012, 8:11am
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If you prefer
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 8 2012, 8:27am
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Aragorn is the perfect example of a character who had no need
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 8 2012, 8:58am
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It's not a formulaic cliche - it's what storytelling/character is entirely about
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starlesswinter
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Nov 8 2012, 7:56pm
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What people tend to forget about LotR
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GoodGuyA
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Nov 8 2012, 11:13pm
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will and self-mastery and maybe ...
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Escapist
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Nov 8 2012, 11:29pm
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I think what all this boils down to...
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 6:28pm
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LOTR
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 10 2012, 6:51pm
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LOTR in no way resembles your life?
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Magpie
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Nov 10 2012, 7:09pm
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Magpie after Moving to the Shire in my Mind's Eye
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Bombadil
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Nov 10 2012, 8:57pm
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When a friend I made in Tolkien died unexpectedly...
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Magpie
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Nov 10 2012, 9:54pm
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Magpie! ...Goldberry will be waiting to Meet you..
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Bombadil
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Nov 11 2012, 1:28am
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for you...
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Magpie
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Nov 11 2012, 1:37am
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A wonderful post
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 11 2012, 2:06am
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I'm sure MANY would disagree that he removed the mundane parts
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 7:31pm
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Magpie
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 10 2012, 8:04pm
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aha!
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Magpie
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Nov 10 2012, 8:48pm
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Of course it is formulaic cliche
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 8 2012, 11:56pm
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Not every character has to, but it's important that the main characters do
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 1:06am
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In the book Aragorn is a main character
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 10 2012, 3:36am
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Aragorn
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macfalk
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Nov 10 2012, 10:18am
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Your opinion
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 10 2012, 5:51pm
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RE: Aragorn and Faramir
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 6:57pm
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Exactly
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macfalk
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Nov 11 2012, 12:26pm
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I understand your opinion
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 11 2012, 5:43pm
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Nobody here used those words
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starlesswinter
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Nov 11 2012, 6:57pm
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starless
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 11 2012, 7:42pm
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Re: change
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starlesswinter
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Nov 12 2012, 2:19am
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But too many character arcs in an ensemble
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 12 2012, 3:05am
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True, but...
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starlesswinter
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Nov 12 2012, 3:28am
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Agreed
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 12 2012, 3:59am
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I'm not insulted at all
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 11 2012, 8:19pm
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Sorry, I did not mean to come across that way
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starlesswinter
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Nov 12 2012, 2:13am
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No worries - it didn't bother me at all! {NT}
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Nov 12 2012, 2:14am
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You can't be talking about me surely
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 11 2012, 6:47pm
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I wasn't calling you it specifically
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macfalk
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Nov 11 2012, 9:39pm
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Then again...
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macfalk
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Nov 8 2012, 9:00am
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Aragorn is a better man than the Mouth
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ElendilTheShort
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Nov 8 2012, 9:19am
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Good point about Beregond.
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Macfeast
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Nov 8 2012, 1:21pm
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Gimli isnt too bad in FOTR
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imin
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Nov 8 2012, 2:34pm
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Well put imin
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DanielLB
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Nov 8 2012, 3:22pm
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I only remember Gimli burping once...
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Elutherian
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Nov 11 2012, 3:34am
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as regards Gimli
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Elenorflower
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Nov 8 2012, 5:28pm
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This is something that gets at me too
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GoodGuyA
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Nov 8 2012, 6:03pm
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Amen
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starlesswinter
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Nov 8 2012, 8:09pm
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why not create something original then?
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Sinister71
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Nov 8 2012, 9:54pm
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Because you can love something and not think EVERYTHING is well done
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 1:25am
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All or nothing at all
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dreamflower
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Nov 9 2012, 4:49pm
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I don't think
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GothmogTheBalrog
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Nov 9 2012, 4:56pm
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"I meant to do that."
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acheron
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Nov 9 2012, 5:02pm
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Calvin & Hobbes?
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Bombadil
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Nov 9 2012, 10:02pm
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Fanon I like that... LOL
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Sinister71
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Nov 9 2012, 10:03pm
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RE: Gandalf and Bree
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 1:12am
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Re: Gandalf and Bree
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dreamflower
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Nov 10 2012, 2:22am
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Re: Time
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 7:03pm
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But he did not have Shadowfax when he left the Shire
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dreamflower
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Nov 10 2012, 8:29pm
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Honestly I don't think it's something most people even notice
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starlesswinter
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Nov 10 2012, 11:42pm
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Probably not. But I did.
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dreamflower
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Nov 11 2012, 5:05am
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