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sador
Valinor


Nov 4 2012, 12:41pm


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Answers [In reply to] Can't Post

Who were the Five Armies?
According to the narrator, because of the five armies you've mentioned. I won't quibble with him on matters of fact.

This is a brief glimpse of goblins/orcs (if they're the same - are they?)

It seems so. In The Hobbit, it seems that this name is specific to the larger types, a base Tolkien later covered by introducing the Uruks.
But it seems that "goblin" is the generic name in The Hobbit, and "orc" in Tolkien's other work.

as a society in their own right acting on their own initiative - not driven by the will of Morgoth, Sauron or wraith.
Yes, the description in The Field of Cormallen is both too good to be true (for the latter story) and contradicts much of what we know of orcs.

They want 'dominion of the North' (for themselves, presumably)
For whom else? But it could be that once the Necromancer will raise his ugly head, they will submit.

and the news of Smaug's death doesn't fill them with dismay ('Hey - he's on our side"), far from it - 'joy was in their hearts'.
It seems that goblins also like money.
From the view of their future progress taken in Over Hill and Under Hill - with good reason.

So - any thoughts on goblins?
They're always hungry.


(I wonder if Alassea's little goblin is always hungry, too?)

How much do you think Gandalf did know?
He even knew the expedition's leader.

But I wonder - if not from Gandalf, who else might have been the source if the narrator? The eagles? Beorn?

What was he expecting - before the bats appeared or earlier, when he showed Thorin he had the Arkenstone?
Well, if you want to picture Gandalf the strategy mastermind, he might have been quite happy at having three anti-goblin armies converging on the Mountain in time to stem the tide.
However, he expected them to come a few days later. But luckily, Bilbo's little scheme with the Arkenstone brought Dain to the Mountain post-haste - just in time, too!

How successful was he?
Hey, I don't quarrel with success!

If you think he wasn't, is that a strength or a weakness in Tolkien's storytelling?
The whole backstory is pretty absurd. If you want to take care of two enemies, you don't send a small expedition against one of them, with a leader you don't half trust, and another utterly improbable agent, which you have a hunch might turn out good.
And his fear that Sauron would strike against Rivendell, Lorien and the Shire first is ridiculous - that won't happen unless Sauron finds out that Isildur's heir lives in Rivendell, that his to-be wife is in Lorien ("There might be no Queen in Gondor" - huh?), and that the One Ring will find it way to the Shire.
I get it that Gandalf was alarmed by the chance that something might happen to his friends, while caring for Gondor and Rohan hardly more than for the Haradrim and Easterlings - but why would Sauron do that?

Bilbo. He hates the battle (but enjoys dining out on the story in later years).
Yeah. The worst warriors are the best talkers.

We're told he put on the ring. What do you think of that?
It has become almost an instinct by now. That's worrying.

What does it say about him?
On the other hand, he knows he would be no good in a battle. That's encouraging.


"With all the various Dwarves of different Mansions that we see being excellent Smiths in the Silmariilion and TLOR, why is it only Dain's faction of the Longbeard's who hold the secret to making the metal mesh?"
- Tolkien Forever



The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Clouds Burst!

(This post was edited by sador on Nov 4 2012, 12:42pm)

Subject User Time
* * The Clouds Burst * * 3: The Battle of Five Armies dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Nov 3 2012, 9:56am
    My thoughts. GothmogTheBalrog Send a private message to GothmogTheBalrog Nov 4 2012, 2:17am
    Answers sador Send a private message to sador Nov 4 2012, 12:41pm
    I haven't been following the movie board... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Nov 6 2012, 12:20pm

 
 
 

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