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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Less-than-quick Answers


Oct 31 2012, 9:32am

Views: 793
Less-than-quick Answers [In reply to] Can't Post

Picking up the thought from yesterday about 'the bewilderment of the treasure', which Tolkien tells us is affecting Thorin,
Why? There is the bewilderment of the Arkstone being held to ransom, as well as of betrayal. Compare. (I know Tolkien says so, the question is about the narrator's statement)

how far do you think the leaders below the mountain are being affected by it?
It seems that Tolkien states that it is the looking upon this treasure which a dragon sat long upon; so they shouldn't be now.
After the end of this book, though, the curse will fall on them, and they will begin bickering and ultimately selling each oother out to the highest bidder (i.e. the Necromancer).
What? According to the sequel they didn't? What of the curse?

Is Dain?
Betrayal yes, the Arkenstone yes, the treasure no. After all, that's what the narrator says - and Dain never seems to disagree with Thorin!

Or Bard?
Betrayal no, the Arkenstone maybe - but he did end up returning it, so perhaps no.
However, he is holden to his dreams of rebuilding Dale, and probably driven by the knowledge the ever-so-fickle people of Esgaroth follow him only because they hope for treasure.
If he fails - they seem very likely to turn against him, for the next hero of the moment. Republics, you know.

The Elvenking I think isn't, for all that we've been told treasure is his weakness. I've always loved him for 'Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold.' But maybe you disagree - feel free to!
I'm not sure your quote proves anything - his following reasons seem like sound strategical thinking.
But by now he knows nothing will be paid unto him directly.

What I do love the Elvenking for, is his turning aside to succor the distressed Lake-men, rather than heading straight North to secure the treasure for himself. After all, he could have just with one fell swoop destroy the dwarves and sieze the treasure,

Second thought: I love the drama of the way this chapter opens. There's a sense of urgency that builds as we read - achieved at least in part, I think, by the references to trumpets, running and hurrying.

It feels as if the thing is building to open warfare between dwarf, man and elf, then suddenly the whole thing turns on that tremendous climax, with Gandalf coming in between the opposing armies like the herald of Mandos.
Which herald of Mandos did that?
The only thing by Tolkien which I think is comparable, is Aragorn jumping between Eomer and Gimli before the two come to blows.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember no Biblical or classical precedents. I this an original Tolkien image?

It's brilliant stuff, I think - anyone agree?
I like it.

any other thoughts on this?
But squire didn't.

"With all the various Dwarves of different Mansions that we see being excellent Smiths in the Silmariilion and TLOR, why is it only Dain's faction of the Longbeard's who hold the secret to making the metal mesh?"
- Tolkien Forever

The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Clouds Burst!

Subject User Time
* * The Clouds Burst * * 2: Dread has come upon you all dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 30 2012, 8:11am
    Thranduil is Bipolar elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Oct 30 2012, 7:19pm
        Oh, I don't know.... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 31 2012, 7:47am
            I was being overly general elevorn Send a private message to elevorn Oct 31 2012, 5:15pm
    Less-than-quick Answers sador Send a private message to sador Oct 31 2012, 9:32am
    Darn movie close-ups justbennett Send a private message to justbennett Nov 1 2012, 8:22pm
        That's a good point.... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Nov 3 2012, 8:51am
            Wow justbennett Send a private message to justbennett Nov 5 2012, 9:03pm


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