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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
I expect so.


Oct 24 2012, 10:21am

Views: 353
I expect so. [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Master first suggested the idea that he would go to Dale - he did not react to the people clamouring for him to be king, but began musing about rebuilding his ancestor's home. But does this mean he dropped the ambition? Or, on the other hand, that he forgot the distress of his present fellow-citizens? Of course, one cannot say, but I expect he was aware of all three; and I expect either spin could be used to explain his actions. And did he care for his followers more than for those left behind? Who can tell?
And after all - Thorin was also motivated by his personbal desire for glory and wealth, by his inherited destiny to try and re-establish his grandfather's realm, and the need of the scattered, wandering dwarves. What was the balance?*

I am also quite sure that Thorin did envision a rebuilt Dale as a good neighbour, and would have been more than willing to contribute towards that end - but this is different than finding up a descendant of Girion at his doors, with two armies at his back. (By the way - is he the only one? Can we be sure that Bard is the heir of Dale?)

In Reply To

One final point to consider is this: given the numbers and the hasty defences erected by the dwarves, it is significant that Bard's forces laid siege rather than diving directly into an assault on the mountain.

I have considered it, and again - several spins could be put on this decision. I just want to point out that in The Clouds Burst, Bard is all for attacking Dain's dwarves to prevent them from relieving the siege, and is restrained by the Elvenking; also that Gandalf is present and might have his own agenda. I suspect he had no compunction in doing all that was needed to brings three armies to the vicinity in the nick of time to stop the goblins.
But alas! I cannot attribute this motivation to Roac (as you seem to have guessed in your answer to escapist); not unless Gandalf was wrong when he said at the end of At Thief at Night that even the ravens do not know all of the news.

Based on our previous discussion, you might be interested in my suggestion as to why Tolkien seems to be so "biased" in favour of Bard.
(With apologies for the presumption in linking to it again)

* By the way, I am sure all leaders labour under this mix of peronal, factional, popular (meaning what the people concretely need) and national (in terms) motivations, and nobody under G-d can truly say what really drives them; which is why I try not to be too judgmental - not even against politicians whose actions I disapprove of.

"Heart of the mountain...heart of Thorin...and now, Gandalf says "keep your heart up" . Anyone care to comment on the repeated use of that image?"
- weaver

The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for A Thief in the Night!

Subject User Time
**The Gathering of the Clouds** III Curious Send a private message to Curious Oct 20 2012, 5:03am
    Responses Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Oct 21 2012, 1:44pm
    Answers sador Send a private message to sador Oct 21 2012, 1:48pm
        What's missing? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 21 2012, 7:26pm
            But of course! sador Send a private message to sador Oct 22 2012, 9:53am
                Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit. SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 22 2012, 8:27pm
                    No sympathy? sador Send a private message to sador Oct 23 2012, 3:29pm
                        small quibble this morning Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:45pm
                            But without people of Thorin's passion Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:46pm
                        But surely Bard wasn't motivated by greed alone SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 4:16pm
                            I wonder how much of a difference it would have made Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 7:20pm
                                Yes, true SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 9:19pm
                                    I've been wondering about Gandalf too FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 24 2012, 9:48am
                            I expect so. sador Send a private message to sador Oct 24 2012, 10:21am
                                What is the balance? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 24 2012, 1:38pm


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