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FarFromHome
Valinor

Oct 24 2012, 9:48am
Views: 68
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I've been wondering about Gandalf too
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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For that matter, did Tolkien imagine that Gandalf might have been massaging events all along as well? I noticed this brief comment at the end of "Fire and Water":
“That will be the last we shall hear of Thorin Oakenshield, I fear,” said the [Elven]king. “He would have done better to have remained my guest. It is an ill wind, all the same,” he added, “that blows no one any good.” For he too had not forgotten the legend of the wealth of Thror. So it was that Bard’s messengers found him now marching with many spearmen and bowmen; and crows were gathered thick above him, for they thought that war was awakening again, such as had not been in those parts for a long age.
I'm not sure who "they" are in the phrase I've bolded - just the crows, or the Elves too? Are they armed because they are already expecting war? And if so, why? Is it just because of the power vacuum caused by the death of Smaug? Or is Gandalf himself behind it? As far as I recall, we are never told just when Gandalf gets back and starts practising his backroom politics among the Elves and Men. Did he stir up this desire to go armed to the Mountain on purpose because he knew the orcs were coming? And did he even encourage the quarrel with the Dwarves for the same reason? He at least seems to have expected the Dwarves (and Bilbo) to still be alive and kicking. The confounding factor is the birds, who are made to seem as if they could be the ones massaging events. And maybe they are - but they may also be a convenient way for Gandalf's own manipulations to stay hidden! Like sador, I don't think we have to read the story as presented - Tolkien encourages us to take into account the natural biases of the characters from whose perspective we are seeing the story. In the Quest of Erebor, Gandalf laughs about how different The Hobbit would have seemed if it had been told by him instead of Bilbo. But he too emphasises the fatal pride of Thorin. Pride seems to be the worst sin in Gandalf's book - but perhaps that's because it's what prevents others from doing what he wants them to do! But Gandalf always finds a way, harnessing the pride itself if it suits his purpose. The only loser in this tends to be the prideful person himself - Saruman, Denethor, Boromir, Thorin - who always comes to a sticky end!
They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth. From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
(This post was edited by FarFromHome on Oct 24 2012, 9:51am)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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**The Gathering of the Clouds** III
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Curious
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Oct 20 2012, 5:03am
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Responses
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Otaku-sempai
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Oct 21 2012, 1:44pm
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Answers
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sador
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Oct 21 2012, 1:48pm
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What's missing?
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SirDennisC
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Oct 21 2012, 7:26pm
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But of course!
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sador
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Oct 22 2012, 9:53am
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Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit.
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SirDennisC
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Oct 22 2012, 8:27pm
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No sympathy?
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sador
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Oct 23 2012, 3:29pm
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small quibble this morning
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Escapist
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Oct 23 2012, 3:45pm
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But without people of Thorin's passion
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Escapist
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Oct 23 2012, 3:46pm
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But surely Bard wasn't motivated by greed alone
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SirDennisC
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Oct 23 2012, 4:16pm
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I wonder how much of a difference it would have made
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Escapist
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Oct 23 2012, 7:20pm
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Yes, true
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SirDennisC
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Oct 23 2012, 9:19pm
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I've been wondering about Gandalf too
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FarFromHome
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Oct 24 2012, 9:48am
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I expect so.
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sador
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Oct 24 2012, 10:21am
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What is the balance?
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SirDennisC
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Oct 24 2012, 1:38pm
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