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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit.

SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 22 2012, 8:27pm


Views: 167
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Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry about that, I noticed my typo long after the edit window. Regardless as neither "ancient king" nor "elvish lord" is very specific, my point remains. I wonder too if both king and lord can be taken as plural the way "Man" is sometimes understood? I agree with you however that the treasure the first song speaks of may be quite different than the treasure the dwarves claimed at Smaug's demise.

As for the rest, it occurs to me that as with Denethor, and the Master of Laketown, my appreciation of Thorin is less nuanced than some here are able to claim. I see him as corrupt (though not beyond redemption) or too given to Dragon Sickness than my ideal King would be.

I think Curious, in answer to one of his own questions in one of the other threads captures my own thoughts nicely: "All the defenses of Thorin's actions sound to me like attacks on the Elvenking, and on Bard for allying himself with the Elvenking. Two wrongs do not make a right. Maybe it's also a reaction to the narrator's clear bias, which does not seem entirely justified. But there are so many ways Thorin could have handled it better." (reference) I would add that not taking the time to discern or learn the intentions of the men and elves before sending for reinforcements was very telling for me. For all he knew they were armed for Orc? It was assumed the dwarves, including Thorin, were wiped out when Smaug was teased from his lair.

It really is a tough question... lest we get into an ethical debate, or even a discussion of morality, I will say your perspective is sensible and persuasive. I suppose if I could muster more sympathy for Thorin -- to me the one most in a position to act graciously in all of this -- I might agree with you completely. Then again as Curious suggests, it may be Tolkien's fault for the way he painted Thorin.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 22 2012, 8:28pm)

Subject User Time
**The Gathering of the Clouds** III Curious Send a private message to Curious Oct 20 2012, 5:03am
    Responses Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Oct 21 2012, 1:44pm
    Answers sador Send a private message to sador Oct 21 2012, 1:48pm
        What's missing? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 21 2012, 7:26pm
            But of course! sador Send a private message to sador Oct 22 2012, 9:53am
                Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit. SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 22 2012, 8:27pm
                    No sympathy? sador Send a private message to sador Oct 23 2012, 3:29pm
                        small quibble this morning Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:45pm
                            But without people of Thorin's passion Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:46pm
                        But surely Bard wasn't motivated by greed alone SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 4:16pm
                            I wonder how much of a difference it would have made Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 7:20pm
                                Yes, true SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 9:19pm
                                    I've been wondering about Gandalf too FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 24 2012, 9:48am
                            I expect so. sador Send a private message to sador Oct 24 2012, 10:21am
                                What is the balance? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 24 2012, 1:38pm

 
 
 

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