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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
What's missing?

SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 21 2012, 7:26pm


Views: 167
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What's missing? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the reference to my previous post Sador.

The elements of the Bag-end version of the song whose absence in the post-Smaug version is telling are this one:

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
On silver necklaces they strung
The flowering stars, on crowns they hung
The dragon-fire, in twisted wire
They meshed the light of moon and sun.


and this one:

The bells were ringing in the dale
And men looked up with faces pale;
The dragon's ire more fierce than fire
Laid low their towers and houses frail.



The first says that the treasures (hoards, necklaces, gilded swords and so on) were made for "many a king and elvish lord" I'm assuming that "king" applies to any king in Middle-earth, though it may only imply "dwarf king." "For... elvish lord" is a clearer statement of whom some of the treasures were intended for. Perhaps Voronwe could tell us if this constitutes a binding statement of ownership or claim to the treasure?

The second passage gives an account of what happened at Dale, to the dwarves' neighbours, men. This acknowledges that it was not merely the dwarves who suffered when Smaug took up residence at the Lonely Mountain. Actually it seems the attack on men were at one time understood to be intrinsic to the attack on Erebor, their suffering and losses mutual.

So again, given Bard's role, and how the dwarves felt at one time about their shared fortunes, it is surprising that Thorin's first order of business was to determine not to share any of the wealth. In fact any claim to any part of the hoard was immediately perceived by him as a threat.

Consider too that rather than sending bird messengers or envoys of peace to the elves and men straight away, instead he sent messengers out for reinforcements. When he said he would not negotiate under siege, not only was he buying time, but, well, it was a lie -- he was not interested in negotiating under any circumstance.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Oct 21 2012, 7:29pm)

Subject User Time
**The Gathering of the Clouds** III Curious Send a private message to Curious Oct 20 2012, 5:03am
    Responses Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Oct 21 2012, 1:44pm
    Answers sador Send a private message to sador Oct 21 2012, 1:48pm
        What's missing? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 21 2012, 7:26pm
            But of course! sador Send a private message to sador Oct 22 2012, 9:53am
                Yes opening with a misquote is a weak gambit. SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 22 2012, 8:27pm
                    No sympathy? sador Send a private message to sador Oct 23 2012, 3:29pm
                        small quibble this morning Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:45pm
                            But without people of Thorin's passion Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 3:46pm
                        But surely Bard wasn't motivated by greed alone SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 4:16pm
                            I wonder how much of a difference it would have made Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Oct 23 2012, 7:20pm
                                Yes, true SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 23 2012, 9:19pm
                                    I've been wondering about Gandalf too FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 24 2012, 9:48am
                            I expect so. sador Send a private message to sador Oct 24 2012, 10:21am
                                What is the balance? SirDennisC Send a private message to SirDennisC Oct 24 2012, 1:38pm

 
 
 

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