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Phibbus
Rohan
Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
Views: 993
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Aragorn's statement is pretty definitive. There's no hint of "generally" about it, or any suggestion that he is only talking about what mere orcs are allowed to say or write. On the other hand, as you and others have pointed out, the Mouth of Sauron not only calls Sauron by the right name, the Black Numenorean's own non-name does so inherently, and he works for the guy! As well, why not bring up the fact that the Dark Lord's Messenger speaks the name repeatedly in his visits to Dain, as described by Gloin at the Council of Elrond. And of course, when we read the thoughts of the Nazgul as they search the house at Crickhollow, they think the name Sauron while comforting themselves that the only good hobbit is an enslaved hobbit. I think Christopher Tolkien is being charitable by suggesting that Aragorn's information is out of date. Aragorn was at the Council of Elrond, after all. I go with the idea that JRRT goofed while trying to achieve a little dramatic effect for Aragorn, Sherlock-wise, in a moment of hasty writing. Otherwise we have to twist the meaning of a plain sentence too much, and I hate doing that just to keep Tolkien's creation impeccably consistent. Beyond that which others have noted of the Mouth and the Nazgūl being the elite corps of the dark lord's horde as opposed to run-of-the-mill grunts, and the possible interpretation of the Mouth as the actual surrogate of his own voice in the absence of a physical form capable of producing one... In each of the three cases cited, Sauron is in the act of openly declaring himself (or being contemplated as on the verge of doing so) to unconquered, stranger nations for the first time in centuries. It is necessary that the Dwarves of Erebor know who their master is before they bend knee and turn tithe. Although Sauron has previously declared himself to Gondor, at the Black Gate, Aragorn is being addressed as its presumptive king for the first time, and again, formal declaration must be made in order for the subsequent annihilation to have its proper savor. When the Nazgūl think Sauron's name, they are in a position of disadvantage; they must still operate in sly secrecy under cover of night and are driven away by a mere cockcrow and toot of a horn. However they anticipate the day, soon to come, when Sauron will openly declare his name, here, as well, and the now-happy hobbits will be enslaved. After so long preparing in the shadows, Sauron is finally having his coming out party. Yes, his name will be trumpeted. Dogs must be made to know who their master is. Afterwards, presumably, they will fear to speak that name as well as the orcs now do.
Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.
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Subject
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User
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Time
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A so called "inconsistency"
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 12:54pm
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Your conclusion is what I've always thought myself.
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 4:28pm
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Thanks...
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 6:04pm
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Inconsistency is as inconsistency does
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squire
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Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
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Inconsistency vs. complexity
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm
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Exactly
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:34am
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That's not what I would call complexity.
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sador
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Oct 12 2012, 12:41pm
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"No doubt?" Really?
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm
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Plenty of doubt, when you think about it
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CuriousG
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Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm
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technically, runes versus letters...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:24pm
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Thank you!
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 4:51pm
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What reason would Sauron have at that point...
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mandel
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Oct 11 2012, 11:56pm
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Maybe
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:30am
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From Parma Eldalamberon 17, Saura (Quenya) = foul, vile...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 12:49pm
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So, it's not his real name.
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Elizabeth
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Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm
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By Jove, er, Jupiter, I mean...Zeus!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 10:08pm
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My take...
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Morthoron
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Oct 13 2012, 1:45am
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This...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm
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A Dark Lord by any other name...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:48pm
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You might be right, i.e., . . .
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 15 2012, 1:25pm
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My take on it as well and what is Aragorn's "real" name anyway?
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telain
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Oct 19 2012, 1:19pm
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S is for Sauron
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Elthir
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Oct 19 2012, 6:09pm
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true, true!
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telain
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Oct 20 2012, 11:25am
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The meaning 'disgusting, foul, vile'...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:30pm
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Thanks for the correction!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 10:46pm
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Another distinction
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Phibbus
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Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
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Why do you assume the MoS was permitted to use the name?
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Oct 20 2012, 12:49pm
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Perhaps there is consistency
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Plurmo
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Oct 12 2012, 4:27am
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I think you've hit the nail on the head.
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FarFromHome
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Oct 12 2012, 10:35am
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It could have been
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 13 2012, 8:36am
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That would be me...
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 11:58am
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Can one be "willing" or "unwilling" when one no longer has a will?
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squire
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Oct 14 2012, 1:35pm
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Good point
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
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I'm of the opinion loyalty must be a willing choice
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 15 2012, 6:52am
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A couple great points here
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:10pm
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Question
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:19pm
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Excellent question
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CuriousG
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Oct 18 2012, 8:13pm
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The Difficulty of having a Lord one can't name...
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Morthoron
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Oct 19 2012, 3:49am
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Very nice!
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sador
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Oct 21 2012, 8:25am
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