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FarFromHome
Valinor
Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
Views: 1014
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"Willing" and "unwilling" don't really apply to the Nazgul, do they? Yet the sense that they identify with Sauron, share his goals and have no desire to rebel was what I was getting at. It's hard to pin down just what a "magical" subservience might entail, although I sometimes find myself thinking of the kind of brainwashing that was believed to be possible at the time Tolkien was writing. I was struck by this phraseology of Tolkien's in the first passage you quote: "the Ringwraiths... had no will but his [Sauron's] own." Interesting phraseology - implying not so much that the Nazgul have no will, but that they share Sauron's own will. Can't get much more loyal than that!
They went in, and Sam shut the door. But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth. From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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Subject
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User
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Time
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A so called "inconsistency"
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 12:54pm
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Your conclusion is what I've always thought myself.
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 4:28pm
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Thanks...
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 6:04pm
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Inconsistency is as inconsistency does
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squire
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Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
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Inconsistency vs. complexity
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm
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Exactly
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:34am
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That's not what I would call complexity.
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sador
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Oct 12 2012, 12:41pm
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"No doubt?" Really?
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm
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Plenty of doubt, when you think about it
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CuriousG
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Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm
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technically, runes versus letters...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:24pm
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Thank you!
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 4:51pm
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What reason would Sauron have at that point...
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mandel
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Oct 11 2012, 11:56pm
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Maybe
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:30am
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From Parma Eldalamberon 17, Saura (Quenya) = foul, vile...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 12:49pm
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So, it's not his real name.
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Elizabeth
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Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm
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By Jove, er, Jupiter, I mean...Zeus!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 10:08pm
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My take...
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Morthoron
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Oct 13 2012, 1:45am
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This...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm
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A Dark Lord by any other name...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:48pm
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You might be right, i.e., . . .
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 15 2012, 1:25pm
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My take on it as well and what is Aragorn's "real" name anyway?
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telain
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Oct 19 2012, 1:19pm
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S is for Sauron
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Elthir
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Oct 19 2012, 6:09pm
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true, true!
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telain
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Oct 20 2012, 11:25am
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The meaning 'disgusting, foul, vile'...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:30pm
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Thanks for the correction!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 10:46pm
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Another distinction
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Phibbus
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Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
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Why do you assume the MoS was permitted to use the name?
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Oct 20 2012, 12:49pm
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Perhaps there is consistency
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Plurmo
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Oct 12 2012, 4:27am
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I think you've hit the nail on the head.
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FarFromHome
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Oct 12 2012, 10:35am
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It could have been
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 13 2012, 8:36am
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That would be me...
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 11:58am
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Can one be "willing" or "unwilling" when one no longer has a will?
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squire
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Oct 14 2012, 1:35pm
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Good point
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
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I'm of the opinion loyalty must be a willing choice
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 15 2012, 6:52am
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A couple great points here
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:10pm
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Question
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:19pm
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Excellent question
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CuriousG
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Oct 18 2012, 8:13pm
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The Difficulty of having a Lord one can't name...
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Morthoron
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Oct 19 2012, 3:49am
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Very nice!
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sador
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Oct 21 2012, 8:25am
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