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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
"No doubt?" Really?

aruman
Rivendell


Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm


Views: 667
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"No doubt?" Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

While I will admit that it is possible that Aragorn was simply basing his statement on false knowledge, I'm surprised that you feel that there is not at least room for the possibility that he was speaking in a general sense.

Aragorn was in a hurry to make the correct decision. He didn't have time to delve into exceptions to a rule that, as far as we know, was generally followed by Sauron's servants, especially Orcs, the creatures in question.

Clearly, as with many rules, there were exceptions. Most of these seem to fall under the category of use during diplomacy by his emissaries, perhaps for clarity, and by his upper level servants.

These exceptions were not relevant at the time. The companions were able to (corrrectly) determine that the Orcs (with the S- rune) were from Isengard.

I'm not trying to "hand wave" anything away, nor would I refuse to admit if there was an inconsistency. If this were an inconsistency, it would effect my enjoyment of the book very little, if at all.

We don't know what JRR was thinking exactly, or what he would say about this, I'm just explaining why this never posed a problem in my mind.

If we posed this questions to JRR it could go a couple ways 2 possibilities: "Hey why did Aragorn say this and yet the Mouth of Sauron said that?" "Oh yeah, I goofed up."

or

"Well, of course the name was used in certain situations, where it needed to be used, but the point is that there wouldn't be an S-rune on the gear of his Orcs."

If we are taking every sentence in LOTR at face value then I guess we've solved the Balrog/wings debate!

In the movies Elrond, Denethor, Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn stink.

Subject User Time
A so called "inconsistency" aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 11 2012, 12:54pm
    Your conclusion is what I've always thought myself. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 11 2012, 4:28pm
        Thanks... aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 11 2012, 6:04pm
    Inconsistency is as inconsistency does squire Send a private message to squire Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
        Inconsistency vs. complexity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm
            Exactly aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 1:34am
            That's not what I would call complexity. sador Send a private message to sador Oct 12 2012, 12:41pm
                "No doubt?" Really? aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm
                    Plenty of doubt, when you think about it CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm
            technically, runes versus letters... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:24pm
                Thank you! aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 4:51pm
        What reason would Sauron have at that point... mandel Send a private message to mandel Oct 11 2012, 11:56pm
            Maybe aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 1:30am
            From Parma Eldalamberon 17, Saura (Quenya) = foul, vile... Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 12 2012, 12:49pm
                So, it's not his real name. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm
                    By Jove, er, Jupiter, I mean...Zeus! Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 12 2012, 10:08pm
                        My take... Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Oct 13 2012, 1:45am
                            This... Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm
                        A Dark Lord by any other name... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:48pm
                            You might be right, i.e., . . . Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 15 2012, 1:25pm
                    My take on it as well and what is Aragorn's "real" name anyway? telain Send a private message to telain Oct 19 2012, 1:19pm
                        S is for Sauron Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 19 2012, 6:09pm
                            true, true! telain Send a private message to telain Oct 20 2012, 11:25am
                The meaning 'disgusting, foul, vile'... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:30pm
                    Thanks for the correction! Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 13 2012, 10:46pm
        Another distinction Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
        Why do you assume the MoS was permitted to use the name? Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Oct 20 2012, 12:49pm
    Perhaps there is consistency Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Oct 12 2012, 4:27am
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 12 2012, 10:35am
    It could have been ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Oct 13 2012, 8:36am
        That would be me... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 14 2012, 11:58am
            Can one be "willing" or "unwilling" when one no longer has a will? squire Send a private message to squire Oct 14 2012, 1:35pm
                Good point FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
                    I'm of the opinion loyalty must be a willing choice ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Oct 15 2012, 6:52am
            A couple great points here aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 5:10pm
    Question aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 5:19pm
        Excellent question CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 18 2012, 8:13pm
            The Difficulty of having a Lord one can't name... Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Oct 19 2012, 3:49am
                Very nice! sador Send a private message to sador Oct 21 2012, 8:25am

 
 
 

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