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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Inconsistency vs. complexity

CuriousG
Valinor


Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm


Views: 759
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Inconsistency vs. complexity [In reply to] Can't Post

‘Nay!’ said Legolas. ‘Sauron does not use the Elf-runes.’

But Sauron used Elvish runes to write his message on the One Ring, according to Gandfalf: Elvish letters using the language of Mordor (The Shadow of the Past.) We could say that's inconsistent too, but I'd say there's a lot of complexity in Middle-earth, and to qualify every statement used in dialogue or description would be unwieldy, so I don't take Tolkien's declarations at face value unless there's a compelling reason to. I take the point in the dialogue to mean that the other two are correcting Gimli's perception that if you see an "S" on orc armor, it means Sauron. Tolkien is trying to deepen the mystery a little here for these three on who their real enemy is.

‘S is for Sauron,’ said Gimli. ‘That is easy to read.’
‘Nay!’ said Legolas. ‘Sauron does not use the Elf-runes. Except when he is writing on Rings of Power messages that only he will read."
‘Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken, except by his messengers and spokespersons in certain diplomatic situations, or when they've been foiled from seizing the ring in hobbit homes in Buckland, or when...,’ said Aragorn.


Subject User Time
A so called "inconsistency" aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 11 2012, 12:54pm
    Your conclusion is what I've always thought myself. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 11 2012, 4:28pm
        Thanks... aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 11 2012, 6:04pm
    Inconsistency is as inconsistency does squire Send a private message to squire Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
        Inconsistency vs. complexity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm
            Exactly aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 1:34am
            That's not what I would call complexity. sador Send a private message to sador Oct 12 2012, 12:41pm
                "No doubt?" Really? aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm
                    Plenty of doubt, when you think about it CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm
            technically, runes versus letters... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:24pm
                Thank you! aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 4:51pm
        What reason would Sauron have at that point... mandel Send a private message to mandel Oct 11 2012, 11:56pm
            Maybe aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 12 2012, 1:30am
            From Parma Eldalamberon 17, Saura (Quenya) = foul, vile... Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 12 2012, 12:49pm
                So, it's not his real name. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm
                    By Jove, er, Jupiter, I mean...Zeus! Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 12 2012, 10:08pm
                        My take... Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Oct 13 2012, 1:45am
                            This... Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm
                        A Dark Lord by any other name... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:48pm
                            You might be right, i.e., . . . Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 15 2012, 1:25pm
                    My take on it as well and what is Aragorn's "real" name anyway? telain Send a private message to telain Oct 19 2012, 1:19pm
                        S is for Sauron Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 19 2012, 6:09pm
                            true, true! telain Send a private message to telain Oct 20 2012, 11:25am
                The meaning 'disgusting, foul, vile'... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Oct 13 2012, 10:30pm
                    Thanks for the correction! Tweezers of Thu Send a private message to Tweezers of Thu Oct 13 2012, 10:46pm
        Another distinction Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
        Why do you assume the MoS was permitted to use the name? Noel Q. von Schneiffel Send a private message to Noel Q. von Schneiffel Oct 20 2012, 12:49pm
    Perhaps there is consistency Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Oct 12 2012, 4:27am
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 12 2012, 10:35am
    It could have been ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Oct 13 2012, 8:36am
        That would be me... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 14 2012, 11:58am
            Can one be "willing" or "unwilling" when one no longer has a will? squire Send a private message to squire Oct 14 2012, 1:35pm
                Good point FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
                    I'm of the opinion loyalty must be a willing choice ElendilTheShort Send a private message to ElendilTheShort Oct 15 2012, 6:52am
            A couple great points here aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 5:10pm
    Question aruman Send a private message to aruman Oct 14 2012, 5:19pm
        Excellent question CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Oct 18 2012, 8:13pm
            The Difficulty of having a Lord one can't name... Morthoron Send a private message to Morthoron Oct 19 2012, 3:49am
                Very nice! sador Send a private message to sador Oct 21 2012, 8:25am

 
 
 

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