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squire
Half-elven
Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
Views: 1445
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Inconsistency is as inconsistency does
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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‘S is for Sauron,’ said Gimli. ‘That is easy to read.’ ‘Nay!’ said Legolas. ‘Sauron does not use the Elf-runes.’ ‘Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken,’ said Aragorn. (LotR III.1)
Aragorn's statement is pretty definitive. There's no hint of "generally" about it, or any suggestion that he is only talking about what mere orcs are allowed to say or write. On the other hand, as you and others have pointed out, the Mouth of Sauron not only calls Sauron by the right name, the Black Numenorean's own non-name does so inherently, and he works for the guy! As well, why not bring up the fact that the Dark Lord's Messenger speaks the name repeatedly in his visits to Dain, as described by Gloin at the Council of Elrond. And of course, when we read the thoughts of the Nazgul as they search the house at Crickhollow, they think the name Sauron while comforting themselves that the only good hobbit is an enslaved hobbit. I think Christopher Tolkien is being charitable by suggesting that Aragorn's information is out of date. Aragorn was at the Council of Elrond, after all. I go with the idea that JRRT goofed while trying to achieve a little dramatic effect for Aragorn, Sherlock-wise, in a moment of hasty writing. Otherwise we have to twist the meaning of a plain sentence too much, and I hate doing that just to keep Tolkien's creation impeccably consistent.
squire online: RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'. Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!" squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Subject
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Time
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A so called "inconsistency"
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 12:54pm
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Your conclusion is what I've always thought myself.
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 4:28pm
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Thanks...
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aruman
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Oct 11 2012, 6:04pm
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Inconsistency is as inconsistency does
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squire
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Oct 11 2012, 6:41pm
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Inconsistency vs. complexity
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CuriousG
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Oct 11 2012, 8:13pm
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Exactly
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:34am
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That's not what I would call complexity.
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sador
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Oct 12 2012, 12:41pm
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"No doubt?" Really?
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 3:33pm
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Plenty of doubt, when you think about it
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CuriousG
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Oct 12 2012, 7:10pm
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technically, runes versus letters...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:24pm
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Thank you!
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 4:51pm
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What reason would Sauron have at that point...
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mandel
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Oct 11 2012, 11:56pm
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Maybe
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aruman
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Oct 12 2012, 1:30am
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From Parma Eldalamberon 17, Saura (Quenya) = foul, vile...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 12:49pm
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So, it's not his real name.
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Elizabeth
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Oct 12 2012, 8:47pm
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By Jove, er, Jupiter, I mean...Zeus!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 12 2012, 10:08pm
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My take...
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Morthoron
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Oct 13 2012, 1:45am
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This...
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 3:57pm
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A Dark Lord by any other name...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:48pm
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You might be right, i.e., . . .
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 15 2012, 1:25pm
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My take on it as well and what is Aragorn's "real" name anyway?
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telain
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Oct 19 2012, 1:19pm
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S is for Sauron
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Elthir
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Oct 19 2012, 6:09pm
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true, true!
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telain
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Oct 20 2012, 11:25am
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The meaning 'disgusting, foul, vile'...
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Elthir
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Oct 13 2012, 10:30pm
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Thanks for the correction!
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Tweezers of Thu
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Oct 13 2012, 10:46pm
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Another distinction
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Phibbus
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Oct 18 2012, 3:47am
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Why do you assume the MoS was permitted to use the name?
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Noel Q. von Schneiffel
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Oct 20 2012, 12:49pm
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Perhaps there is consistency
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Plurmo
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Oct 12 2012, 4:27am
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I think you've hit the nail on the head.
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FarFromHome
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Oct 12 2012, 10:35am
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It could have been
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 13 2012, 8:36am
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That would be me...
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 11:58am
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Can one be "willing" or "unwilling" when one no longer has a will?
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squire
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Oct 14 2012, 1:35pm
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Good point
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FarFromHome
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Oct 14 2012, 8:21pm
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I'm of the opinion loyalty must be a willing choice
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ElendilTheShort
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Oct 15 2012, 6:52am
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A couple great points here
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:10pm
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Question
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aruman
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Oct 14 2012, 5:19pm
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Excellent question
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CuriousG
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Oct 18 2012, 8:13pm
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The Difficulty of having a Lord one can't name...
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Morthoron
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Oct 19 2012, 3:49am
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Very nice!
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sador
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Oct 21 2012, 8:25am
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