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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Oct 10 2012, 4:42am
Views: 605
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A lot of strong points in what you are saying, except for the Khazad-Dum bit. The Balrog,
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a.k.a Durin's Bane, had already destroyed the realm of Khazad-Dum rather effectively all on his own. The Goblins were sent by Sauron to populate Moria and make it a fully manned kingdom of evil, doubtless from which to launch part of his war against Lothlorien, which had long been his original intent and was Gandalf's chief worry when he discovered Sauron's identity. But Khazad-Dum was completely overthrown by The Balrog centuries before orcs began to populate there. Indeed, Sauron had been unable to overwhelm Moria from without, and it was only after The Balrog emptied it that it became accessible to that other evil Maia. As you all know at the moment we are drowned with new images and information about orcs, goblins and other evil creatures of The Hobbit trilogy. And the more we learn about them the merrier I start to compare them to the ones of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. In an interview with someone Peter Jackson told us that now he's doing three films he's able to tell us more about "The Rise of the Necromancer". Here is my theory how we gonna notice it while watching the AUJ, DOS and TABA without seeing much of Sauron himself. Let's compare some of the evil races of AUJ to their counterparts of LOTR: Goblins of AUJ: No armor (loincloth), no heavy weapons (whips, wooden spears, knives). Obviously they're living in their own civilization [Goblin Town] with their own ruler [Great Goblin]. Very independant if you ask me. And everything looks hastily cobbled together. No wizard or Dark Lord behind them. Goblins of LOTR: Uniform armor, forged weapons and armor (shields, chainmail, helmets, swords...). They're in Moria because they were sent there to destroy the dwarven realm of Khazad-dûm by Sauron. ----- Orcs of AUJ: Fimbul, Bolg and Yazneg are serving Sauron but are wearing skin or bones as their armor rather than chainmails, corslets or forged things. Perhaps Sauron wasn't able to rebuild his industries and forges yet? Everything looks very savage. Although they serve Sauron it seems that they're also fighting their personal conflicts (Azog-Thorin-Dain-Bolg). It seems that they still have a bit of their free mind left. Orcs of LOTR: Orcs of Mordor and Isengard are wearing heavy armor and weapons forged in their own industries. Orcs and Uruk-Hai look more improved, more disciplined (for orc standards) and every orc follows only one goal: To destroy the world of Men, Elves and all the Free People on behalf of their master. No real sign of an own mind. ----- Wargs of AUJ: They're looking more like animals and independant beasts than bred creatures. They're looking like allies but not servants. Also they seem to have their own primitive language and a kind of "society" with a leader [white She-Wolf]. Wargs of LOTR: They're looking more like bred war maschines than animals. More improved, stronger and obedient. Following the orders of Sauron and Saruman. ----- Trolls of AUJ: They've got names, they've got the ability to speak and they seem to be independant too. They're living their own lifes and are not serving anybody. They kill if they're hungry and not on behalf of a dark lord. Trolls of LOTR: Obedient and improved bred elite-warriors in Saurons armies. No own mind, no speaking. Armoured and ready to fight everybody who stands against their master. ----- All in all: I think we gonna see how all of these evil races are losing their independence during The Hobbit trilogy one by one. Perhaps we see what Saruman tells Gandalf in FOTR: "He is gathering all evil to him. Very soon he will summon an army great enough to launch an assault upon Middle earth". I think that's how we're going to notice "The Rise of the Necromancer" while watching The Hobbit trilogy without seeing much of Sauron himself. We will see the development of his servants and their loss of independence. Sauron would be still more the incarnation of evil and growing darkness than an actual single person. But that's just a theory. "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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How we gonna notice "The Rise of the Necromancer" (possibly spoilers)
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 11:49am
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Great post, and well thought out
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DanielLB
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Oct 9 2012, 11:58am
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Thanks!
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 12:04pm
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Perhaps
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stoutfiles
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Oct 9 2012, 12:07pm
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Doesn't he controls their minds?
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 12:10pm
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I assume he could with the Ring
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DanielLB
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Oct 9 2012, 12:12pm
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To be bred or not be bred... that's the question
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 12:19pm
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maybe
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elevorn
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Oct 10 2012, 1:59pm
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They had free will
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stoutfiles
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Oct 9 2012, 12:23pm
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That Shagrat episode...
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Oct 9 2012, 1:03pm
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Yes, but orcs are quite different from the book in the movies. //
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Fàfnir
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Oct 9 2012, 4:52pm
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orc personalities
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Mooseboy018
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Oct 9 2012, 6:26pm
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Own personalities YES... following their own goals NO
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 7:19pm
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You just killed your own theory with some of these orcs
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stoutfiles
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Oct 10 2012, 12:22pm
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Personally I don't see why all the Orcs need to be involved with Sauron to begin with...
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Sinister71
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Oct 10 2012, 12:39pm
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Sauron and Morgoth created them.
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Fàfnir
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Oct 10 2012, 2:15pm
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But being influenced is different from being entirely animated or ruled by the will of another.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 11 2012, 9:21pm
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pardon me if I am wrong
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Elenorflower
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Oct 11 2012, 9:31pm
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I think you missed my point...
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 10 2012, 2:21pm
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I agree 100% !
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Fàfnir
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Oct 10 2012, 2:43pm
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Yes! Because the dark lords are the incarnation of evil itself...
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 10 2012, 2:51pm
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That isn't entirely true. Quoth Elrond, "nothing is evil in its beginning. Even Sauron was not so."
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 11 2012, 9:28pm
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Why didn't they just say...
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 10 2012, 2:43pm
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You're missing the big picture
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stoutfiles
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Oct 10 2012, 3:01pm
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We can see here some of Tolkien's contradictions
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Fàfnir
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Oct 10 2012, 3:12pm
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Quite the riddle!
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Escapist
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Oct 10 2012, 3:17pm
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Great Post //
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Sinister71
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Oct 10 2012, 3:22pm
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TALKING of something isn't the same as really DOING something
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 10 2012, 3:33pm
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The books aren't about the orcs
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stoutfiles
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Oct 10 2012, 5:11pm
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From Morgoth's Ring
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stoutfiles
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Oct 10 2012, 5:54pm
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The End of All Evil? No.
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Otaku-sempai
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Oct 10 2012, 7:10pm
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Except that Sauron is no mere dictator !
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Fàfnir
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Oct 10 2012, 3:36pm
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And is not fear a way to control a mind?
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
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Oct 9 2012, 12:58pm
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Very clever observations
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comandantedavid
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Oct 9 2012, 2:43pm
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On point
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Elessar
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Oct 9 2012, 3:09pm
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Development within the trilogy
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
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Oct 9 2012, 3:14pm
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Yes, good thougths and I agree...
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Captain Salt
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Oct 9 2012, 3:29pm
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good post....but
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MouthofSauron
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Oct 10 2012, 3:49am
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A lot of strong points in what you are saying, except for the Khazad-Dum bit. The Balrog,
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 10 2012, 4:42am
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I think...
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Ereinion Nénharma
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Oct 11 2012, 9:04am
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