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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I don't agree

redgiraffe
Rohan

Oct 8 2012, 11:19am


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I don't agree [In reply to] Can't Post


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... doesn't seem very climactic to me. If they follow the book, all is quiet until Bilbo convinces the dwarves to shut the door. Then Smaug comes along and smashes rocks.

I could see it going either way, but I would like Smaug's death to be the climactic scene of DOS. I would reverse the orders of chapters 12 and 13 to put the exploration of the treasure in TABA and the death of Smaug in DOS.

I would also like to see the battle with the necromancer play out in TABA. I think the defeat of Smaug is interesting because it is done by humans (Bard) as opposed to the greater powers of ME (Gandalf). If the Bo5A is part of a greater plot, it climaxes for both the lesser (Hobbit/Dwarf) and greater (White Council) arcs. If the white council "wins" in DOS, I feel like the significance of the Bo5A is diminished. It makes the land more peaceful after the defeat of a great host of goblins, but the big picture is the necro AND the goblins (plus, to a lesser extent, Smaug). I don't want to resolve the big picture before the little one, especially not in two sequential films.


I think Smaug needs to die either at the same time or after the resolution of the DG subplot. But not before.

My reasoning is that it Smaug dies before the DG subplot it might sever the importance of the connection between the two stories.
The connection should be that Sauron is trying to gain an alliance with Smaug which is why Gandalf sets the company out to Erebor, and why the white council attacks DG.

If Smaug dies first, then it would seem like there really isn't much need for them to attack DG since the main villain/purpose (Smaug) has been killed. Yes, they still have the task of driving Sauron out of DG but it doesn't really seems to fit with the original purpose of attacking DG.

But if DG is resolved first, we are still left with the threat of Smaug and the purpose of the dwarves' quest. It also shifts the spotlight away from the DG subplot and brings the focus completely on the main aspect of the story, which is the journey of the dwarves to reclaim the Lonely Mountain.

I think resolving the DG subplot before Smaug's death is a much more effective way of telling the story.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

Subject User Time
My guess: Desolation of Smaug "where the action is" macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Oct 5 2012, 4:34pm
    And no so much action afterwards ! Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 5:00pm
        The *spoilers* Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Oct 5 2012, 5:08pm
            Yeah it's a big probability Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 5:23pm
            I don't think so There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Oct 5 2012, 5:50pm
                The geo-political build-up DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 5 2012, 6:03pm
                    but but but but but There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Oct 5 2012, 6:10pm
                good point redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 10:24am
        Not so much action? ryanw8 Send a private message to ryanw8 Oct 5 2012, 5:11pm
            Smaug must be in film 2, his name is in the title Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 5:15pm
    Agreed DoS will have much more going on than AUJ...however, based on what we know, I'd see something more akin to this unfolding: Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 5:07pm
        I really think you are loading a bit too much on "There and Back Again". Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Oct 5 2012, 5:16pm
            I thought so as well until recently... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 5:26pm
            Not necessarily Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Oct 5 2012, 10:57pm
                You know that LotR was structured on climaxes. I don't expect these to be different GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Oct 6 2012, 4:15am
                I agree redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 10:52am
        No Smaug in Desolation of Smaug ? Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 5:27pm
            Yes, it is a conundrum... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 5:33pm
                I like your plot development redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 10:18am
        This looks pretty good to me! Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Oct 5 2012, 10:17pm
    It all comes down to the Dol Guldur subplot DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 5 2012, 5:33pm
        Agreed Barrels out of Bond would have been/could be a great climatic sequence. // Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 5:42pm
            personally it seemed a little lame There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Oct 5 2012, 6:06pm
                Agreed Eye's on Guard Send a private message to Eye's on Guard Oct 5 2012, 9:48pm
                    Climax Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Oct 5 2012, 10:07pm
                        What I think... Lost Hobbit Send a private message to Lost Hobbit Oct 5 2012, 10:17pm
            The only problem with the climax of DOS being the barrel escape is ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 5 2012, 6:12pm
                Correct, I don't expect it to be the end of Film 2... Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 6:18pm
                    Wait ! Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 6:21pm
                        As said above, I don't think anyone's suggesting an entire movie set in Mirkwood. // Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Oct 5 2012, 7:08pm
                            Oh right, I hadn't read the title of your post. Sorry ! // Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 7:30pm
        We know PJ loves to Start with Big Bang! Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Oct 5 2012, 5:48pm
        Dol Guldur redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 10:21am
    Yes I agree burgahobbit Send a private message to burgahobbit Oct 5 2012, 6:45pm
        Personally redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 10:29am
            I think that people will expect it burgahobbit Send a private message to burgahobbit Oct 8 2012, 7:02pm
    My bet : we meet Smaug in TDOS and he dies in film 3. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Oct 5 2012, 7:01pm
        This is what I think as well. Carne Send a private message to Carne Oct 5 2012, 10:41pm
            I so love the Idea of our Dwarves diving into Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Oct 5 2012, 11:12pm
                me too Bombadil There&ThereAgain Send a private message to There&ThereAgain Oct 5 2012, 11:22pm
                    Thank you T&TA? Bombadil Send a private message to Bombadil Oct 5 2012, 11:55pm
        I agree. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 8:10am
            It works both ways though DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 6 2012, 8:17am
                There is lots to fit into DoS though Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 8:33am
                    Oh, I agree about that DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 6 2012, 8:40am
                        It's certainly problamatic Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 8:44am
                            I could probably accept that DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 6 2012, 8:47am
                                Just out of interest, was this Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Oct 6 2012, 9:10am
                                    I'm sure is was a worry for PJ, yes. Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 9:15am
                                    Good question LR DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 6 2012, 10:08am
                                        I understand - and agree Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Oct 6 2012, 10:30am
                                            Well, PJ engineers mini-climaxes near the end of FotR and TT Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 12:15pm
                                                Good point Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 6 2012, 12:50pm
                                                    Smaug's wrath on the mountainside... totoro Send a private message to totoro Oct 6 2012, 6:10pm
                                                        The Last Homely House storytime totoro Send a private message to totoro Oct 6 2012, 6:14pm
                                                        If you look at PJ's directing style Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 7:55pm
                                                        I don't agree redgiraffe Send a private message to redgiraffe Oct 8 2012, 11:19am
                                Well, if Smaug dies in film 2 Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 9:14am
                                    Smaug dieing in film 2. Briza Send a private message to Briza Oct 6 2012, 10:06am
                                    Dol Guldur and Smaug DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 6 2012, 10:11am
                                        You begin and end on the most important point Fardragon Send a private message to Fardragon Oct 6 2012, 11:40am
    I agree, but I think they will leave Smaug´s death for film 3 elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Oct 5 2012, 7:28pm
    Of course, it is possible even Jackson don't when DOS will end. // Fàfnir Send a private message to Fàfnir Oct 5 2012, 10:58pm
    The Two Towers ended with Plurmo Send a private message to Plurmo Oct 6 2012, 1:31am
        This looks like a good way to do it... Eye's on Guard Send a private message to Eye's on Guard Oct 6 2012, 1:51am
        Yup Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Oct 6 2012, 5:05am
            I know the story outline of DOS QuackingTroll Send a private message to QuackingTroll Oct 6 2012, 9:15am

 
 
 

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