|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Oct 3 2012, 7:18pm
Views: 1303
Shortcut
|
At least as effective against. . . What is your evidence? I think your approach is more D&D
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
than that of myself or some others. Gandalf said it best, "Against some I have not yet been tested." There were not the sort of given conclusions with Powers against Powers, at that level, which you seem to suggest. The High Elves were generally terrified of Balrogs, and few ever managed to defeat one, and NO High Elf in the recorded history of Arda ever survived a battle with one of The Demons of Might, though Glorfindel was reincarnated for his valour. There is no guaruntee that Elrond would have survived against The Balrog, or even that Glorfindel would have defeated or Galadriel would have defeated it. Balrogs were mighty Maiar spirits. The mightiest, aside from Sauron himself, to follow Morgoth, and the first to follow him, even when Sauron was still technically numbered among the People of Aule. Above all things, The Balrog was really a threat to Lothlorien, which would probably have become manifest once Sauron launched his war, had Gandalf not already come through and vanquished the ancient Thane of Melkor The Morgoth. And perhaps the Wizard's "heart" led him thither for that purpose. As Galadriel said, "Needless were none of the deeds of Gandalf. Those who followed him did not know his mind, and cannot report his full purpose." What? As seen against the cave troll in the movies?????? I guess you missed Aragorn telling the Hobbits to "stay close to Gandalf!" Read between the lines, "Gandalf can protect you best if things go really badly here." I guess you are also forgotting the FULLY ARMOURED OLAG HAI mountain, battle Troll, both larger and better armed than The Cave Troll, whom Gandalf slew with A SINGLE STROKE of his sword in ROTK!!!! You know what. Nevermind. I don't know if its that you don't really care much for the old Wizard, or you just prefer to think of him as weaker than the evidence shows him to have been, but you are pulling a lot of very poorly founded assumptions out of the gaseous air, and I really don't think there is much point in us debating it further, as there will clearly be no consensus . As we see with in "Flight to the Ford". Mortals have minimal presence in the spiritual plane. Aragorn has a little, because of his distant elven ancestry. Legolas would have more, but, being Sindar not Noldor, not enough. The rest of the party have none at all (apart from Frodo, who could hypothetically have used the ring, had he had the skill and knowledge). Glorfindel, Elrond, or Galadriel would have been able to fight the Balrog at least as effectively as Gandalf, since they are all fully present on the spiritual plane. So, it's not a matter of raw power, it's simply a matter of Gandalf being the only person able to meet the Balrog on the spiritual plane. Against purely physical opponents, Aragorn, Boromir, Legolas and Gimili are more powerful than Gandalf, as seen against the cave troll. "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
The notion of Bolg chasing Gandalf or matching the power of The Wizard. . . What? come on now! Be serious.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:06am
|
My take
|
Phibbus
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:22am
|
I think that's what is happening
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:34am
|
Great Goblin and Boldogs
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:24am
|
You may be right.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:48am
|
maybe I'm in the minority here but...
|
Sinister71
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:56am
|
wow
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:11am
|
I totally agree, EXCEPT, if Peter is determined to make Bolg a threat to Gandalf.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:11am
|
How do we know
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:48am
|
There we go
|
Carne
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:56am
|
You see for me
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:42pm
|
You said blast apart, not me. But, unless the Tolkien you read had missing pages,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:27am
|
But is the being he fears Gandalf, or Beorn. It is an important question.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:20am
|
Gandalf and Bolg will meet,
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 5:48pm
|
I can totally see Azog desecrating the corpse
|
The Preciousss
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
|
Beorn?
|
Otaku-sempai
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:38pm
|
Agreed
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:58pm
|
sinister71
|
Lusitano
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:27pm
|
Here's the definition of "Necromancy"
|
Carne
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:34pm
|
I'm glad he SA posted the link
|
Phibbus
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:02am
|
I agree with you as well
|
burgahobbit
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:03am
|
Gandalf is powerful...
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:07am
|
I take your point about it taking time for Gandalf to muster strong spells, however that overlooks what first happened with the goblins.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:49am
|
I agree
|
dubulous
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:05am
|
whoa whoa whoa whoa
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:15am
|
that's just it..
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:17am
|
okay i see
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:20am
|
3 pages back
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:23am
|
It isn't just the toy. Something is chasing a rather concerned Gandalf through the corridors of Dol Guldur
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:54am
|
Know what you mean
|
DarkJackal
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:28am
|
I think you're over reacting a little.
|
Istaris'staffs
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:33am
|
Even in the movies, where his powers seem at times sadly diminished from what the novels describe,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:52am
|
I'm at a bit of a loss
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:57am
|
I find it vastly amusing
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:13am
|
Agreed
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:39am
|
hehe
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:52am
|
I also didnt find Ainur
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:58am
|
Call me sensitive
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:10pm
|
Agreed
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:28pm
|
Deep breaths needed?
|
Elessar
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
|
If Ainur wants to come here and
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:45pm
|
Rules
|
Elessar
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:51pm
|
I'm so late to this party
|
There&ThereAgain
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:37pm
|
Of course
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:55pm
|
Thanks, my good Elf lady. And to Voronwe, glad you enjoyed,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:59pm
|
It is very faint
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:24am
|
I'm not
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:52pm
|
The Earth would continue to orbit even if Smaug were portrayed as a 200 foot tall kitten
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:51pm
|
LOL
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:53pm
|
You're in luck
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:21am
|
The timing is rather suspect...
|
SirDennisC
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:56pm
|
It isn't the merchandising alone. Its a series of things that, put together, could be an issue.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:29pm
|
He is not that powerful in The Hobbit.
|
macfalk
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:21am
|
Ainur is not saying
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:01am
|
I wasn't saying that Ainur said it
|
macfalk
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:14am
|
Well that just isn't the story or the Mythos. That is like saying, " I hate that Superman is so strong"
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:40pm
|
Bolg is not "an orc"
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 2 2012, 8:17am
|
I beg to
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 8:18am
|
And if it's of any comfort
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:41pm
|
That would be a real stretch.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:15pm
|
Not sure if it's just me
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:25pm
|
There is some merit to that notion Kangi. The Legendarium does
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:54pm
|
seems like a bad deal to me
|
There&ThereAgain
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:13am
|
Well, the Balrogs and Wizards (even in the Wizard's limited forms) are Maia of greater
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:16am
|
I really want a citation on this idea of Maia Orcs.//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:21am
|
It's in Morgoth's Ring
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:32am
|
Ok I actually found that before you cited it. But this leads to the question
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:39am
|
It does seem like it, doesn't it?
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:42am
|
Verrryyy interesting...
|
Tim
|
Oct 3 2012, 1:16am
|
Spent too much time on Bilbo's contract
|
SirDennisC
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:24am
|
Mmmm. That must be why when The Balrog showed up, Gandalf told the ENTIRE fellowhship
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:57am
|
Tolkien deals with spiritual conflict differently to physical
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:45am
|
Hmm?
|
geordie
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:26pm
|
And Boromir's strength that forced the door closed
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 1:37pm
|
It seems that you have a personal theory regarding power & spirituality
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:40pm
|
I'm suprised it needs to be explained on a fan site
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:52pm
|
Interesting theory...//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:54pm
|
From where are you drawing this idea of spiritual presence?//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:27pm
|
I don't really agree with this
|
Tim
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:43pm
|
Well said, Tim.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:45pm
|
Thanks
|
Tim
|
Oct 4 2012, 5:37am
|
Good company : - )
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 4 2012, 8:30am
|
At least as effective against. . . What is your evidence? I think your approach is more D&D
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:18pm
|
Not to seem mulish -
|
geordie
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:44pm
|
In the movie, Geordie. Fandragon was speaking of the movie killing of Trolls,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 9:18pm
|
I can see no reason to worry about this stuff
|
triptrap
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:36am
|
Who says Bolg will give him any trouble at all?
|
dave_lf
|
Oct 2 2012, 12:22pm
|
And he will know fear...
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:39pm
|
Movie Gandalf isn't that powerful
|
stoutfiles
|
Oct 2 2012, 12:29pm
|
In tolkien, no fight is won in advance
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:48pm
|
Bilbo was meant to find the ring . . .
|
Beren0nehanded
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:25pm
|
There have been arguments about free will versus fate for ages.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:46pm
|
Yeah, I could have been clearer ^^
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 6:42pm
|
I agree with you IN PART, but with lots of caveats
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:44pm
|
Oddly the LOTR films have established a sort of consistency.
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:04pm
|
There is some kind of explanation i think
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:22pm
|
Spirit trumps flesh.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:30pm
|
Not if the trailer is any indication. If you look at the Troll scene,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:22pm
|
I think
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:30pm
|
|
|
|