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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Oct 3 2012, 2:53am
Views: 2462
Shortcut
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Though this "debasement of language," as it were, comes out earlier. Gandalf's mockery of Bilbo's multiple uses of "good morning" is a dig at Bilbo's (or modern man's, and certainly, modern Britain's) propensity for sucking all meaning out of words that in the past had real and solid meaning. Bilbo says "good morning," though he means "shove off!" This kind of language use is also partly behind legalese, which is incredibly dry, difficult to discern the meaning of, and mostly devoid of spirit and poeticism. I can imagine Tolkien finding legalese to be the "wraithing" of language. Not dead, but just barely and unnaturally alive. In an Unexpected Party, I still think the distinction is there. The fact that Thorin thought the song was enough information for Bilbo to go on is clear evidence of that. Bilbo, of course, cannot accept that. He must have it all clear and plain, and essentially, in legalese. But from Thorin's perspective, Bilbo's "plain and clear" probably means "tortured and unclear." He still prefers songs over documents, despite his diminishment in exile.
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Oct 3 2012, 2:57am)
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Subject
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User
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Time
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An Update to Bilbo's Contract
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DarkJackal
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Oct 2 2012, 3:23pm
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You're awewome!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 2 2012, 3:32pm
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That izz... Absolutely Histerical!
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Bombadil
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Oct 2 2012, 3:34pm
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You're truly great!
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DanielLB
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Oct 2 2012, 3:52pm
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I said it on your blog.
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Macfeast
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Oct 2 2012, 4:01pm
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My favorite part
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DarkJackal
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Oct 2 2012, 5:11pm
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It looks like it's been amended,
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Reptile
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Oct 5 2012, 3:54am
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I think the flappy bits are folded in
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DanielLB
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Oct 5 2012, 7:08am
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Nice detail
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Reptile
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Oct 5 2012, 6:35pm
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Nice work, DJ!
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 2 2012, 4:18pm
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Greatness versus Genius
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dave_lf
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Oct 2 2012, 5:46pm
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How is this funnier?
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Tim
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Oct 2 2012, 7:42pm
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In the book, it's really funnier IMO. //
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Fàfnir
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Oct 2 2012, 10:12pm
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Because
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 2 2012, 11:17pm
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Actually and I am slightly suprised to say this
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Oct 2 2012, 11:40pm
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I can understand finding it funnier, actually
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 12:18am
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I'm not sure it speaks of a fundamental misunderstanding
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Oct 3 2012, 12:26am
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I agree with this
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marcuspaine
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Oct 3 2012, 12:34am
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I think it's fun as well
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 12:37am
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Interesting, so dwarves can't be as diverse as humans?
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 1:04am
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Diversity
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 1:20am
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It certainly wins on absurdity
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 1:21am
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So...
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 1:36am
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They shouldn't be, no
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 1:41am
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That kinda over-simplifies the dwarves in my humble opinion.
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 1:49am
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Perhaps
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 1:58am
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You're misunderstanding plenty yourself
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Lightice
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Oct 3 2012, 2:04am
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But here you're conflating Thorin-esque long-windedness, with legalese
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:22am
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Yeah, no offense, but I think you're reading too much into it.
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 2:28am
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Where do they mock him for being a tad legalistic?
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 2:14am
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From the book:
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:30am
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Again, over generalizing
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Tim
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Oct 3 2012, 2:40am
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That would make great sense
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:45am
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True
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 3:02am
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If that is how PJ plays it
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:07am
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Let's hope for the best then! //
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 3:11am
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Agreed
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:19am
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I am a glutton for punishment :)
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 3:28am
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Eat then!
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:39am
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Now you're just being silly...
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GoodGuyA
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Oct 3 2012, 3:18am
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I don't understand...
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:27am
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Its worth pointing out.
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AlatarVinyamar
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Oct 3 2012, 9:30am
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Three things
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:00pm
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It's interesting
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Fardragon
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Oct 3 2012, 3:03pm
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Your point is?
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Kangi Ska
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Oct 3 2012, 3:20pm
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Just an aside
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Fardragon
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Oct 3 2012, 3:22pm
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In response
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AlatarVinyamar
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Oct 3 2012, 4:58pm
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Quote for reference
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AlatarVinyamar
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Oct 3 2012, 5:01pm
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I was thinking of this one
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DanielLB
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Oct 3 2012, 5:03pm
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I was just looking up the quote while you posted -
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geordie
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Oct 3 2012, 5:07pm
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Yup. I'm aware of that quote
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 6:06pm
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You misinterpreted my post. Apologies if I wasn't clear.
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 6:03pm
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No worries
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AlatarVinyamar
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Oct 3 2012, 10:23pm
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Off the top of my head
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 11:38pm
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Shippey quote
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Phibbus
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Oct 4 2012, 1:25am
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That's the one
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 2:58am
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Honestly?
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AlatarVinyamar
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Oct 4 2012, 10:09am
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Scene from the Trailer could support this view.
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Foromir
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Oct 4 2012, 2:11pm
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Good observation
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 2:13pm
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Sorry Foromir,
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Ataahua
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Oct 4 2012, 6:45pm
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Ah, should have known that - my bad! (resized image inside) //
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Foromir
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Oct 5 2012, 7:53am
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Well serves me right for going to bed
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Oct 3 2012, 10:14am
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It's a good point
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:55pm
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Dwarves tend not to trust non-dwarves.
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Fardragon
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Oct 3 2012, 3:02pm
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But that's not what the book implies
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:04pm
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I have always thought of the contract as a bit of a trifel
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Kangi Ska
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Oct 3 2012, 3:28pm
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That's spot on
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 4:04pm
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Mmhm
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Phibbus
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Oct 3 2012, 4:43pm
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Oh I shouldn't think they will spend any explicit time on that.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Oct 3 2012, 7:16pm
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True
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 12:37am
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I agree with almost all of this.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Oct 4 2012, 7:39am
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Agreed as well
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 2:09pm
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I just had an medieval history class this morning
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Fàfnir
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Oct 4 2012, 1:30pm
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Well, there was that Magna Carta thingy
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Fardragon
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Oct 4 2012, 2:07pm
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I bet the majority of Brits don't know what it is! /
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DanielLB
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Oct 4 2012, 3:07pm
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Since I'm no Brit...
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Fàfnir
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Oct 4 2012, 3:10pm
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A contract of sorts
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Fardragon
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Oct 4 2012, 3:22pm
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Thanks ! //
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Fàfnir
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Oct 4 2012, 3:31pm
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Yikes!
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Eye's on Guard
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Oct 4 2012, 3:16pm
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Agreed
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Tim
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Oct 4 2012, 4:00pm
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We aren't talking about the majority of Brit's
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Fardragon
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Oct 4 2012, 3:18pm
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Doesn't mean a thing really
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DanielLB
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Oct 4 2012, 3:24pm
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Knowledge of history
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Fardragon
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Oct 4 2012, 3:27pm
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I'm not denying that
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DanielLB
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Oct 4 2012, 3:30pm
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An hour of wolves and shattered shields...
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Fàfnir
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Oct 4 2012, 3:35pm
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history and
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Lusitano
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Oct 4 2012, 3:44pm
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"Does Magma Carta mean nothing to you?..
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geordie
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Oct 4 2012, 9:42pm
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The Magna Carta is a very modern document
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 2:11pm
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Not that forgotten.
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Fardragon
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Oct 4 2012, 2:34pm
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All true
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 4 2012, 2:41pm
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Speaking of mythology
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Lightice
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Oct 4 2012, 2:55pm
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Agreed that agreements are dwarf-like
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 5 2012, 1:14am
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I don't think these will be mentioned or visible in the movie
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Fardragon
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Oct 5 2012, 10:19am
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You have a good point about song versus contract
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 2:44am
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Perhaps
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:53am
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The dwarves change over the course of the story
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 2:33am
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That's a very good point
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:38am
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There are 13 dwarves we can pick from
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 2:58am
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True!
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 3:01am
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Because he doesn't smell like a dwarf...
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 3:08am
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Or is it just possible that Jackson is -gasp- taking a different interpretation?
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GoodGuyA
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Oct 3 2012, 2:00am
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It is not at all an "insignificant character element"
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:13am
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More fine print
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 1:17am
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The book contract is right for the book, but I like the movie contract for the film
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 2 2012, 11:43pm
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But it's not the same concept
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 12:14am
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Nicely said, SA.
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N.E. Brigand
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Oct 3 2012, 3:55am
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Nice to see you here!
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 3 2012, 4:06am
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A shame, though
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 4:14am
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In a word, no
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 3 2012, 4:19am
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True, however
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 5:14am
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Shippey is, of course
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 5:33am
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Different bones
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 3 2012, 12:49pm
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Can we still like the book and films, even if we don't like soup? /
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DanielLB
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Oct 3 2012, 1:53pm
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Soup is good food! //
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Oct 3 2012, 2:06pm
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You don't like ANY kinds of soup???
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 2:40pm
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Any type of soup is yuck
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DanielLB
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Oct 3 2012, 2:44pm
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You do not know what good soup is!
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Kangi Ska
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Oct 3 2012, 2:50pm
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I've never seen drunk soup
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dernwyn
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Oct 3 2012, 4:38pm
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Don't blame me
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Phibbus
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Oct 3 2012, 4:45pm
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A cheap shot at propper usage.
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Kangi Ska
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Oct 3 2012, 4:58pm
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agreed!//
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elevorn
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Oct 3 2012, 5:08pm
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Ooh, no - I like soup.
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geordie
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Oct 3 2012, 5:12pm
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Well Well Wellington?
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Bombadil
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Oct 3 2012, 6:02pm
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I agree
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 8:14pm
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I was in error, those quotes are in there
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 5:19am
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Esteemed repose is not in there
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 5:23am
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Thanks for the update, DJ.
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N.E. Brigand
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Oct 3 2012, 6:01am
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Thanks N.E. Brigand
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Oct 3 2012, 5:26am
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NEB! Great to see you!
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entmaiden
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Oct 3 2012, 12:13pm
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The book's version of everything is better
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stoutfiles
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Oct 2 2012, 11:43pm
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The minute I saw the better view of the contract I thought of you
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Faenoriel
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Oct 2 2012, 5:26pm
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This is why Weta is the greatest props department in the world
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GoodGuyA
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Oct 2 2012, 6:15pm
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Good job! That was interesting.
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burgahobbit
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Oct 2 2012, 6:18pm
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You would be hard pressed to take a contract like this seriously
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DarkJackal
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Oct 2 2012, 11:14pm
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Haha! I sort of skimmed over that part the first time. Very funny!
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burgahobbit
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Oct 4 2012, 12:12am
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Have you sent this to TORN's Spymaster?
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Ataahua
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Oct 2 2012, 6:27pm
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Can't the moderators post this on the front page?
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Carne
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Oct 2 2012, 6:35pm
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Some can.
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Ataahua
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Oct 2 2012, 7:15pm
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An Update to the Update to Bilbo's Contract :-)
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DarkJackal
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Oct 2 2012, 9:35pm
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I know this is going to sound almost sacrilegious, but I think I like the movie's version of the contract more NT
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marcuspaine
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Oct 2 2012, 10:27pm
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If anyone is still reading :-)
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DarkJackal
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Oct 3 2012, 8:24am
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Is that an oxtail soup recipe scribbled in the margin?
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SirDennisC
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Oct 3 2012, 7:06pm
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Subjectivity!
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Beren0nehanded
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Oct 3 2012, 12:38pm
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Close up pictures of the contract
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DanielLB
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Oct 12 2012, 5:06pm
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cool
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DarkJackal
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Oct 12 2012, 6:29pm
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