|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
grinman
Rivendell
Oct 2 2012, 2:07am
Views: 2330
Shortcut
|
Gandalf's power limitations are mentioned several times (or at least alluded to) throughout the trilogy. Forgive me for not finding quotes and paraphrasing: When he was preparing to rescue the Dwarves from the Misty Mountain Goblins, he mentioned that he spent some TIME conjuring up his magic. In order for it to be as powerful as it was, he needed to actually focus and prepare it. In the fight with the Wargs in the treetops, he lit pine cones on fire and tossed... note, he did not send flaming streams or fireballs down at them. He had to have something physical to work with... something that would actually burn. This was further evidenced when the Fellowship was trudging up Caradhras. He told Legolas (I think) that he couldn't light snow on fire, he needed dry wood in order for his conjuring to work. When faced with the Balrog on the outside of the chamber of Mazarbul, after the balrog shattered his spell, I believe he mentioned that he didn't have the TIME to conjure a more powerful spell. Those are just a couple of examples. His magic with the Trolls was deceptive and not really offensive. His fight with the Wargs in The Fellowship showed a bit more power, but again, I think he had a little more time to prepare as they knew (from the howls) that the Warg pack was approaching. As Gandalf the White, I got the feeling that he was more powerful than Gandalf the Grey and that his magic was enhanced. So, anything he did in that form, I think shouldn't be counted in the argument. So, using those examples as precedent, being attacked unprepared by a very physically powerful and imposing orc, I don't feel it's too outlandish to have Gandalf be on his heels for a bit. He was never shown in the books having a one-on-one physical battle with another character, so I think it will be interesting and new (to the audience) to see that Gandalf IS vulnerable, physically.
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
The notion of Bolg chasing Gandalf or matching the power of The Wizard. . . What? come on now! Be serious.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:06am
|
My take
|
Phibbus
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:22am
|
I think that's what is happening
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:34am
|
Great Goblin and Boldogs
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:24am
|
You may be right.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:48am
|
maybe I'm in the minority here but...
|
Sinister71
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:56am
|
wow
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:11am
|
I totally agree, EXCEPT, if Peter is determined to make Bolg a threat to Gandalf.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:11am
|
How do we know
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:48am
|
There we go
|
Carne
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:56am
|
You see for me
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 2 2012, 1:42pm
|
You said blast apart, not me. But, unless the Tolkien you read had missing pages,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:27am
|
But is the being he fears Gandalf, or Beorn. It is an important question.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:20am
|
Gandalf and Bolg will meet,
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 5:48pm
|
I can totally see Azog desecrating the corpse
|
The Preciousss
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
|
Beorn?
|
Otaku-sempai
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:38pm
|
Agreed
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:58pm
|
sinister71
|
Lusitano
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:27pm
|
Here's the definition of "Necromancy"
|
Carne
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:34pm
|
I'm glad he SA posted the link
|
Phibbus
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:02am
|
I agree with you as well
|
burgahobbit
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:03am
|
Gandalf is powerful...
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:07am
|
I take your point about it taking time for Gandalf to muster strong spells, however that overlooks what first happened with the goblins.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:49am
|
I agree
|
dubulous
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:05am
|
whoa whoa whoa whoa
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:15am
|
that's just it..
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:17am
|
okay i see
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:20am
|
3 pages back
|
grinman
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:23am
|
It isn't just the toy. Something is chasing a rather concerned Gandalf through the corridors of Dol Guldur
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:54am
|
Know what you mean
|
DarkJackal
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:28am
|
I think you're over reacting a little.
|
Istaris'staffs
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:33am
|
Even in the movies, where his powers seem at times sadly diminished from what the novels describe,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:52am
|
I'm at a bit of a loss
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:57am
|
I find it vastly amusing
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:13am
|
Agreed
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:39am
|
hehe
|
redgiraffe
|
Oct 2 2012, 5:52am
|
I also didnt find Ainur
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:58am
|
Call me sensitive
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 3:10pm
|
Agreed
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:28pm
|
Deep breaths needed?
|
Elessar
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:35pm
|
If Ainur wants to come here and
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:45pm
|
Rules
|
Elessar
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:51pm
|
I'm so late to this party
|
There&ThereAgain
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:37pm
|
Of course
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:55pm
|
Thanks, my good Elf lady. And to Voronwe, glad you enjoyed,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:59pm
|
It is very faint
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:24am
|
I'm not
|
Altaira
|
Oct 2 2012, 2:52pm
|
The Earth would continue to orbit even if Smaug were portrayed as a 200 foot tall kitten
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:51pm
|
LOL
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:53pm
|
You're in luck
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:21am
|
The timing is rather suspect...
|
SirDennisC
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:56pm
|
It isn't the merchandising alone. Its a series of things that, put together, could be an issue.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:29pm
|
He is not that powerful in The Hobbit.
|
macfalk
|
Oct 2 2012, 6:21am
|
Ainur is not saying
|
Shelob'sAppetite
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:01am
|
I wasn't saying that Ainur said it
|
macfalk
|
Oct 2 2012, 7:14am
|
Well that just isn't the story or the Mythos. That is like saying, " I hate that Superman is so strong"
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:40pm
|
Bolg is not "an orc"
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 2 2012, 8:17am
|
I beg to
|
Elenorflower
|
Oct 2 2012, 8:18am
|
And if it's of any comfort
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:41pm
|
That would be a real stretch.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 2 2012, 10:15pm
|
Not sure if it's just me
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:25pm
|
There is some merit to that notion Kangi. The Legendarium does
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:54pm
|
seems like a bad deal to me
|
There&ThereAgain
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:13am
|
Well, the Balrogs and Wizards (even in the Wizard's limited forms) are Maia of greater
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:16am
|
I really want a citation on this idea of Maia Orcs.//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:21am
|
It's in Morgoth's Ring
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:32am
|
Ok I actually found that before you cited it. But this leads to the question
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:39am
|
It does seem like it, doesn't it?
|
Aitieuriskon
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:42am
|
Verrryyy interesting...
|
Tim
|
Oct 3 2012, 1:16am
|
Spent too much time on Bilbo's contract
|
SirDennisC
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:24am
|
Mmmm. That must be why when The Balrog showed up, Gandalf told the ENTIRE fellowhship
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:57am
|
Tolkien deals with spiritual conflict differently to physical
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:45am
|
Hmm?
|
geordie
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:26pm
|
And Boromir's strength that forced the door closed
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 1:37pm
|
It seems that you have a personal theory regarding power & spirituality
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:40pm
|
I'm suprised it needs to be explained on a fan site
|
Fardragon
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:52pm
|
Interesting theory...//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 2:54pm
|
From where are you drawing this idea of spiritual presence?//
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 12:27pm
|
I don't really agree with this
|
Tim
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:43pm
|
Well said, Tim.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:45pm
|
Thanks
|
Tim
|
Oct 4 2012, 5:37am
|
Good company : - )
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 4 2012, 8:30am
|
At least as effective against. . . What is your evidence? I think your approach is more D&D
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:18pm
|
Not to seem mulish -
|
geordie
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:44pm
|
In the movie, Geordie. Fandragon was speaking of the movie killing of Trolls,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 9:18pm
|
I can see no reason to worry about this stuff
|
triptrap
|
Oct 2 2012, 11:36am
|
Who says Bolg will give him any trouble at all?
|
dave_lf
|
Oct 2 2012, 12:22pm
|
And he will know fear...
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:39pm
|
Movie Gandalf isn't that powerful
|
stoutfiles
|
Oct 2 2012, 12:29pm
|
In tolkien, no fight is won in advance
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 2 2012, 4:48pm
|
Bilbo was meant to find the ring . . .
|
Beren0nehanded
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:25pm
|
There have been arguments about free will versus fate for ages.
|
Kangi Ska
|
Oct 3 2012, 4:46pm
|
Yeah, I could have been clearer ^^
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 6:42pm
|
I agree with you IN PART, but with lots of caveats
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 7:44pm
|
Oddly the LOTR films have established a sort of consistency.
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:04pm
|
There is some kind of explanation i think
|
Fàfnir
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:22pm
|
Spirit trumps flesh.
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:30pm
|
Not if the trailer is any indication. If you look at the Troll scene,
|
AinurOlorin
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:22pm
|
I think
|
Lacrimae Rerum
|
Oct 3 2012, 8:30pm
|
|
|
|