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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Oct 2 2012, 12:55am
Views: 613
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Some corrections. And sorry about hijacking this post. Amended later.
[In reply to]
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Can't Post
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1) A blast that will kill 6 to 10 goblins would probably kill one big orc. 2) Gandalf testing out his awesome new sword on The Great Goblin is not proof that he could not have killed the monster in any other way. 3)Nazgul are powerful sorcerers. If he were facing The Nine in Dol Guldur (perhaps a transplant of his battle with them that was omitted from the FOTR film) you wouldn't hear me complaining about misrepresentation of power. Are you suggesting Bolg is as mighty as The Nine? As Gandalf The White, he was impervious to mortal weapons, but that is neither here nor there as we are discussing The Grey. Did I say he was invulnerable in his manlike incarnation? Don't recall having done so. He does have superhuman strength. Not on the level of Superman or He-Man of course, but the books describe several situations where his hidden physical strength was revealed. Aside from obvious things like surviving the fall with The Balrog, or in the films, surviving Saruman propelling him at high speeds against the walls and high ceiling of Orthanc, there are comments in the books, including his lifting Faramir from the pyre as easily as one might lift a small child, "revealing the strength that lay hidden within him. . ." He probably can turn invisible. Recall, after the flash amidst The Goblins, no one sees him again until he performs his fire enchantments in the cave of The Great Goblin. Goblins see very well in the dark, so the fact that after the flash they had no better idea of where he had dissapeared to than the dwarves suggest some ability to become quite unobtrusive. Invisibility was the least of The Ring's Powers, and was not a distinguishing trait, else it would have been identified sooner. Of course, invisibility that works on Orcs would likely not work against Balrogs, Sauron or other Spiritually powerful evils. Isildur, Gil-Galad and Elindil (who together overwhelmed Sauron) were fated. Eowyn and Merry were far outmatched by THe Witch King, but sometimes fate and The Will of The Valar prevails over the balance of lesser Powers. As to defeating Elves and Men defeating Maia. . . rare and legendary even for The High Elves. There is no account of a mortal human doing so, save the mixed situation of Isildur, after Sauron had already been worn by battle with Gil-Galad and Elendil together. boils down to simply knowing what to do in a given situation. Can he blast enemies out of existence with magic? Maybe some weak ones, but most he has to stick with a sword, just like everyone else. Your example indicated what he isn't capable of doing: blasting 88 goblins. Nor can he blast Nazgul, or trolls, or the Great Goblin, or wargs. Is he immune to injury? No, his physical form can be injured or killed with a weapon just like a mortal. He can be sent back if the Valar choose, but he will need a new body and it takes some time to recover. Does he have superhuman strength? Can he fly? Can he teleport? Can he move at superhuman speed? Can he turn invisible? is he incorruptible? No to all of these. Even a Maia at full power, augmented by the ring of power, can be defeated by a mortal (Isuldur, and that's not the only time mortals and elves defeat Maia in combat). And, the Istari are further limited by the physical forms they inhabit. Gandalf the White is more powerful than Gandalf the Grey. It's the same Maia, so the power level must be tied to the physical form. And then he has "rules of engagement", to use a modern military term, which limit what he is allowed to do. To summarise: 1) Maia are far from omnipotent, and can be defeated by mortals. 2) Istari are further limited by the form they inhabit. 3) They are limited further by rules they are supposed to follow. "Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!" "Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 1:57am
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If he is not with the dwarves
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 2:27am
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Thorin suspects him of eating their food
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dave_lf
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Sep 26 2012, 4:12am
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So the rumors say
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 26 2012, 4:32am
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Worry not.
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 5:45am
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Er, those photos
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 26 2012, 5:55am
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'Tis not the cave
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:06am
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more proof
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 7:51am
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It's an eagle toy, from Rivendell :-) /
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:53am
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This is the picture I was talking about.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 9:15pm
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The tree is at the front of the cave though, Bilbo could be in the back
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Carne
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Sep 26 2012, 9:27pm
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Although we can only see four of the party in that shot in total.
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Lacrimae Rerum
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Sep 26 2012, 10:08pm
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I was thinking about this shot too, Milknut, but I keep wondering if this is in the cave shot
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 8:58pm
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Some element of change
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:07am
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Why?
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 7:52am
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Because they're making the films, and not us ;-)
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 7:54am
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Maybe that was all part of an elaborate dream sequence!
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 7:55am
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lighting in the fight scene
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 8:08am
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What are you saying?
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 8:10am
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yes- that it's Bilbo's heroics before the abduction
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titanium_hobbit
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Sep 26 2012, 10:10am
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I think
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Fardragon
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Sep 26 2012, 10:21am
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Impossible
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Milknut
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Sep 26 2012, 10:34am
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What heroics?
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dave_lf
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Sep 26 2012, 12:18pm
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Might not be moonlight? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 26 2012, 8:12am
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That is exactly why it is a concern. Because it is a great scene which doesn't need
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 9:34pm
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was wondering that myself
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Sinister71
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Sep 26 2012, 10:10pm
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Thorin an Great Goblin action figure
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 11:10pm
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I really don't like this Bolg vs. Gandalf thing. But that maybe deserves a seperate post.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:36pm
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At least we know Gandlf wins ! ^^ /
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Fàfnir
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Sep 26 2012, 11:45pm
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Indeed. Lol. Though it seems more likely they must draw, since Bolg will almost certainly
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:51pm
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Bolg
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Carne
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Sep 27 2012, 12:16am
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That statement does not necessarily refer to Gandalf.
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 27 2012, 2:16am
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Bolg's opponent
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dave_lf
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Sep 27 2012, 12:38pm
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I agree.
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Fardragon
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Sep 27 2012, 8:51am
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Here is why that doesn't add up or make sense..
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 28 2012, 1:18am
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Also Carne, even by the less than book potent version of Gandalf seen in LOTR
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 28 2012, 1:30am
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What Gandalf CAN do vs. what he wants (or is allowed) to do
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Tim
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Sep 28 2012, 4:41am
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Right
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 28 2012, 4:57am
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I think the Istari
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Fardragon
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Sep 28 2012, 7:53am
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Exactly
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 28 2012, 4:27pm
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They are restrained, and their greater Spiritual power is, seemingly
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 29 2012, 12:46am
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What is vs. reality
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Tim
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Sep 29 2012, 2:04pm
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I think there is something to your speculation. But my issue isn't with the way Tolkien
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 29 2012, 6:39pm
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Tolkien never portrays Gandalf the Grey as that powerful
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 7:13am
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He was powerful enough though.
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:01am
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Only because
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:10am
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Depends how you define "power"
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:14am
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This is one of the most untrue things I have ever read.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:30am
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Was Galadriel (Third Age) both very powerful, and very wise? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:36am
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But it's wasn't power that made her wise.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:47am
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Ahh, it seems you misunderstood me then
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 10:50am
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Wisdom can give you a degree of power
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 10:55am
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Agreed
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 11:07am
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I don't think Gandalf
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 2:16pm
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Only Bard could have defeated him then? /
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 2:38pm
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In a sense, yes.
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Fardragon
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Sep 30 2012, 4:40pm
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Yes, Bard was "meant" to
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DanielLB
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Sep 30 2012, 4:45pm
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No. Not just because of Thranduil. Tolkien specifically said he had to find somewhere to
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 1 2012, 8:17am
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Gandalf's power
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Fardragon
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Oct 1 2012, 2:49pm
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Some corrections. And sorry about hijacking this post. Amended later.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 2 2012, 12:55am
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You may hero-worship Gandalf, but it's not consistent with Tolkien
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Fardragon
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Oct 2 2012, 8:05am
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Challenge accepted. You have managed to ignore a lot of passages from the book.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 3 2012, 12:51am
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He does not blind his opponent with Bright lights. That is a Jackson thing.
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AinurOlorin
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Oct 1 2012, 8:09am
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I don't put anything past Peter Jackson
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Sinister71
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Sep 26 2012, 11:55pm
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AHAHAHAHAHHA. . . . wait. . . wait. . .
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AinurOlorin
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Sep 26 2012, 11:58pm
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LOL
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Sinister71
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Sep 27 2012, 12:06am
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Some tweaking
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Elessar
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Sep 27 2012, 12:22am
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Okay...
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Tim
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Sep 27 2012, 2:25am
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Peter's a fan, too, you know.
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 5:55am
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He is most certainly a fan
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 5:58am
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Sharp words!
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 5:59am
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Not at all
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 6:17am
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Um
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Milknut
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Sep 27 2012, 6:20am
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What point?
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Shelob'sAppetite
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Sep 27 2012, 6:22am
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Because he doesn't want his films to be ridiculous?
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dormouse
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Sep 27 2012, 8:00am
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Interest
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JWPlatt
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Sep 27 2012, 8:21am
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That's true of anyone who does anything artistic...
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dormouse
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Sep 27 2012, 10:11am
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